Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 9:44:37 GMT
Not only does every poll conducted now show a clear majority believe that Brexit was wrong, and a bad idea, but theres also the demographic time bomb ticking away, which in the end is going to gradually increase the numbers of people who believe the UK should be part of Europe. But when will it happen, how far off in the future, and how will it happen ? 75% of under 25s voted REMAIN According to various surveys / polls, that figure has now increased, a survey conducted by YouGov in 2018 found that 87% of under 25s would vote REMAIN. The change taking place is perhaps best summed up in this article from The Independent Demographic changes mean number of Remain supporters grows by 235,000 each year, while number of Leave backers falls by 260,000 (The Independent) www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-kellner-a8541971.htmlThose who voted LEAVE think its a done deal, never to be revisited, but they are so wrong |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 22, 2023 11:07:46 GMT
Well, if there is such a large a majority in favour as you suggest, Labour should stand on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU at the next GE. What could possibly go wrong...  |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 22, 2023 11:17:34 GMT
You couldn't win with a rebate, exemptions from the Euro and Schengen, it'll never happen.
Nobody in their right mind would have us paying £20+bn a year to be shackled in a political customs union, we mostly do not trade with, which comes with a protectionist common external tariff, crap agricultural and fisheries policies and crap industrial policies.
And if you're the leftie you say you are Sid, why the hell do you support it?
As well as being the above, it's also a cathedral to crony capitalism that would prevent nationalisation of industries and state monopolies.
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Post by bancroft on Jul 22, 2023 11:44:28 GMT
Well, if there is such a large a majority in favour as you suggest, Labour should stand on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU at the next GE. What could possibly go wrong... Outstanding comment and for me this blows away all these polls, if they are so sure it's no brainer. In other words they don't trust these polls either. |
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Post by om15 on Jul 22, 2023 13:19:35 GMT
The Lib Dems are standing on a rejoin manifesto and they have just won Frome. Looking at the wokism being embraced by the young (and not so young) with industry, governments, banks and education all hell bent on becoming part of a WEF world plan then the benefits of Brexit begin to pale.
If the young really want to rejoin the EU then I have no objection, providing they wait until I die, then I won't give a toss if they want to destroy what might be left of this country.
The next election is going to be very interesting, as all the parties will be evading the issue of what they stand on anything.
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 14:01:49 GMT
Well, if there is such a large a majority in favour as you suggest, Labour should stand on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU at the next GE. What could possibly go wrong... Outstanding comment and for me this blows away all these polls, if they are so sure it's no brainer. In other words they don't trust these polls either. fully agree with both yours and pacificos original comment. Poor auld sid will never make a labour party spin doctor.
This is of course the outstanding wonder of our age. How an out and out europhile like keir starmer wont give the plebs a clear cut manifesto commitment to rejoin if such a massive majority of the uk are in favour of rejoining.
I suspect labour are simply avoiding the subject as they do on any hot political topics and elephants in the room and hope the problem goes away till they get elected into power and take the uk back in behind the brussells bike sheds.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 22, 2023 14:28:51 GMT
The Lib Dems are standing on a rejoin manifesto and they have just won Frome. Looking at the wokism being embraced by the young (and not so young) with industry, governments, banks and education all hell bent on becoming part of a WEF world plan then the benefits of Brexit begin to pale. If the young really want to rejoin the EU then I have no objection, providing they wait until I die, then I won't give a toss if they want to destroy what might be left of this country. The next election is going to be very interesting, as all the parties will be evading the issue of what they stand on anything. When pro EU Sir Ed Davey was asked whether a woman can have a penis he said, of course they can. The only conclusion must be, the sanity of the Frome electorate must be questioned. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 14:35:26 GMT
The Lib Dems are standing on a rejoin manifesto and they have just won Frome. Looking at the wokism being embraced by the young (and not so young) with industry, governments, banks and education all hell bent on becoming part of a WEF world plan then the benefits of Brexit begin to pale. If the young really want to rejoin the EU then I have no objection, providing they wait until I die, then I won't give a toss if they want to destroy what might be left of this country. The next election is going to be very interesting, as all the parties will be evading the issue of what they stand on anything. When pro EU Sir Ed Davey was asked whether a woman can have a penis he said, of course they can. The only conclusion must be, the sanity of the Frome electorate must be questioned. labour have been getting mocked for their cowardice regarding the european question since at least when milliband was leader. The liberals have been quietly applauded on the other hand for having the moral backbone labour lack in arguing their pro european stance , if not their utter sutpidity and hypocrisy on many other issues.
I agree with oms post though. The next election is going to be really interesting , and looking more and more like a dogs breakfast .
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 22, 2023 14:49:11 GMT
When pro EU Sir Ed Davey was asked whether a woman can have a penis he said, of course they can. The only conclusion must be, the sanity of the Frome electorate must be questioned. labour have been getting mocked for their cowardice regarding the european question since at least when milliband was leader. The liberals have been quietly applauded on the other hand for having the moral backbone labour lack in arguing their pro european stance , if not their utter sutpidity and hypocrisy on many other issues.
I agree with oms post though. The next election is going to be really interesting , and looking more and more like a dogs breakfast .
Starmers problem is, and everyone can see it, he's frightened to be for or against anything. He's terrified of upsetting anyone so has chosen mass appeasement. He recently addressed an audience who were against Ulez, he sympathised and agreed with them. A couple of hours later on LBC he agreed with Ulez. He agrees with whoever is in front of him. As for the EU, who knows what's going on at Labour HQ. For three years Starmer faught to overturn the referendum result. He could see it wasn't popular so he said Labour accept the result and there will be no re joining the EU. Then just a few months ago he said if Labour win the next election he will reopen Brexit talks. I think deep down we all know what Starmer is for, he is for the EU, he is for net zero, and he is for Ulez. He just doesn't want to say it out loud because he knows it's not popular. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 15:02:14 GMT
labour have been getting mocked for their cowardice regarding the european question since at least when milliband was leader. The liberals have been quietly applauded on the other hand for having the moral backbone labour lack in arguing their pro european stance , if not their utter sutpidity and hypocrisy on many other issues.
I agree with oms post though. The next election is going to be really interesting , and looking more and more like a dogs breakfast .
Starmers problem is, and everyone can see it, he's frightened to be for or against anything. He's terrified of upsetting anyone so has chosen mass appeasement. He recently addressed an audience who were against Ulez, he sympathised and agreed with them. A couple of hours later on LBC he agreed with Ulez. He agrees with whoever is in front of him. As for the EU, who knows what's going on at Labour HQ. For three years Starmer faught to overturn the referendum result. He could see it wasn't popular so he said Labour accept the result and there will be no re joining the EU. Then just a few months ago he said if Labour win the next election he will reopen Brexit talks. I think deep down we all know what Starmer is for, he is for the EU, he is for net zero, and he is for Ulez. He just doesn't want to say it out loud because he knows it's not popular. apart from the party faithfull , and the brothers and sisters down the pub plotting the revolution , we can all see starmer is a liar of the highest order who cannot be trusted on any issue.
This is why for a number of years think tanks have been reporting trust in politicians is at its lowest level on record , becuase of the behaviour of prime political figures like starmer , and others of course.
Ive said a number of times that while i disagree with labour and other parties on many issues , i would have much more respect for them if they came out and told the truth. If starmer gets in , and his poor record at the ballot box so far means its a big "if " despite what polls suggest , i will say he is going to set this island on fire with his lies , and poor attempts at spinning , while saying all things to all men.
Everyone knows the uk , or more specific england especially , going back into the EU , or tieing into eu rules and having a closer relationship , whatever you want to describe it , will make the uk a laughing stock , and look like a servile wreck begging penitence to its master in brussells.
Its going to be interesting watching the next election as we keep saying and events regarding all the issues you mention from net zero to brexit and scot indy. I suspect all the current major parties including the snp and labour are going to have a fall in support , with either widespread apathy , or voters flocking to the many smaller parties.
ULEZ and wider net zero isnt popular. As ive said many a time , the "west " appears to be under a deranged sickness emanating from washington .On so many political issues from the trans cult to global warming and much else , we are all suffering from a political sickness that stems from the USA.
To be honest ive never been so totally scunnered in modern politics as i am at the moment.
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 15:39:26 GMT
labour have been getting mocked for their cowardice regarding the european question since at least when milliband was leader. The liberals have been quietly applauded on the other hand for having the moral backbone labour lack in arguing their pro european stance , if not their utter sutpidity and hypocrisy on many other issues.
I agree with oms post though. The next election is going to be really interesting , and looking more and more like a dogs breakfast .
Starmers problem is, and everyone can see it, he's frightened to be for or against anything. He's terrified of upsetting anyone so has chosen mass appeasement. He recently addressed an audience who were against Ulez, he sympathised and agreed with them. A couple of hours later on LBC he agreed with Ulez. He agrees with whoever is in front of him. As for the EU, who knows what's going on at Labour HQ. For three years Starmer faught to overturn the referendum result. He could see it wasn't popular so he said Labour accept the result and there will be no re joining the EU. Then just a few months ago he said if Labour win the next election he will reopen Brexit talks. I think deep down we all know what Starmer is for, he is for the EU, he is for net zero, and he is for Ulez. He just doesn't want to say it out loud because he knows it's not popular. have you seen this what andrew neil is reporting on twitter red?
New YouGov finds 57% of voters now believe that it was a mistake for UK to leave the European Union, only 32% still thinking it was the right decision. Yet in unlikely event of a second referendum any time soon, only a narrow majority of 51% say they would vote to rejoin the EU, suggesting any second round would be another close fought contest.
You can see now why starmer is shitting himself to nail his colours to the EU mast.
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Post by om15 on Jul 22, 2023 15:45:05 GMT
Starmer is just Corbyn with brylcreem. Disingenuous, shifty, anti British and useless.
We will get a hung Parliament with all sorts of rubbish washed in due to protest votes, Labour will do well in Scotland and the Lib Dems will do well in the West Country. It will be awful.
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 15:50:17 GMT
Labour will do well in Scotland and the Lib Dems will do well in the West Country. It will be awful. om you need to detach wishfull thinking from reality , and what you want to happen from what possibly will happen.
I keep telling you mate , there are so many variables now in politics , that the old argument that you hope scotland goes back into its labour box to keep the union safe is of course laughable.
Labour , in terms of scottish westmisnter seats , cant do much worse than the one mp they have just now. So any increase , which while looking likely , is hardly looking like turning labour back into the party of scotland title they once held years ago , and is going to be reported by the uk press in north korean fashion , as the end of independence.
It wont be though.
You will have to fight for the union every single election , and win.
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Post by thomas on Jul 22, 2023 15:59:42 GMT
Starmer is just Corbyn with brylcreem. Disingenuous, shifty, anti British and useless. We will get a hung Parliament with all sorts of rubbish washed in due to protest votes, Labour will do well in Scotland and the Lib Dems will do well in the West Country. It will be awful. i think without turning this into an off topic thread about scot indy on a brexit thread om , as many political commentators and polling experts have said , after starmers humiliation (again ) this time in the uxbridge by election , you have to question if labours polling in both the uk wide , and scotland , has any substance to it at all.
Im still going for a dogs breakfast at the next westmisnter election , with scot indy , brexit and net zero , all playing their part in where votes are cast.
Voters just arent convinced with starmer and this latest new labour incarnation. Time will tell as with so much else.
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Post by om15 on Jul 22, 2023 16:28:50 GMT
Apart from the indoctrinated adolescents, the unhinged and those in the public sector Labour doesn't offer very much, however we have to be realistic, 30 years of leftie brainwashing in schools, on the BBC and in the public sector does add up to quite a few people that are delusional enough to think that Labour would be a good idea.
Those of us that want to see a functioning NHS, secure borders, police that police and large organisations that are not overtaken by wokism would like to vote Tory but it would not be the right thing to do anymore. The only Party that appears to want to turn back the tide of wokism and try to restore our fortunes is Reform UK, but they won't receive many votes because they are a new party and people don't view new parties with much enthusiasm.
This week Starmer has stood out head and shoulders above everyone else by failing to denounce Coutts and NatWest and now changing his mind on ULEZ twice a day.
Tory voters will stay at home and it will be a mess, the only thing we can hope for it that in defeat the Tories ditch Ricky and purge the leftie lib dems out of the Party and reform under a decent leader, even then it may take them 10 years to regain power and goodness knows what sort of state Britain will be in then.
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