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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 7:41:07 GMT
Plenty of VWs alongside other bread and butter cars before the euro. But there weren’t that many Rolls, Bentley, Daimler, either. The growing number of German and other foreign cars on the UK market is because of the demise of British-owned bar industry. As for poorer countries, Dacia and Skoda are selling well and competing against French, Italian, Japanese, Korean and, now, a growing Chinese presence. Blaming others for the UK’s own home grown failures is a major problem because it stops cure and innovation… Or alternatively the demise of the British car industry is because of the growing number of German and other cars.  BTW Skodas are VWs. Are there german cars etc steppenwolf? The plaques of these car companies might be based in paris london or berlin , but the cars and their components are made worldwide.
The british car industry isnt the only one that has had problems . When i first went to france twenty odd years or so ago , almost all the cars on th road were renault or citroen/ peugot. Now its every make and model.
During the sarkozy presidency , citroen started moving production of the new berlngo to eastern europe for cost saving , and the french went up in arms about it. I read a figure a while back at least twenty per cent of the goods if not more ciruclating europe are actually chinese made.
So its a problem many countires in the west are facing wether cars or anything else. They need cheap manufacturing wether its china or elsewhere for profits , whle they need us in the west to coff up and buy their products.
Another problem we have is the false and misleading implication certain goods and vehicles are being built i nthe uk. I was a caravaner for many years , for example i had bailey of bristol caravans. I mind being told by an engineer that the bailey caravans come to the uk on a boat from china , and are then put together in a factory in the uk which is why they get to call it a british caravan.
Wether we are in the EU or not , the modern world is so entertwined there are no real such things as british/german/ french etc cars or caravans .
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Post by Vinny on Jul 24, 2023 8:27:01 GMT
Plenty of VWs alongside other bread and butter cars before the euro. But there weren’t that many Rolls, Bentley, Daimler, either. The growing number of German and other foreign cars on the UK market is because of the demise of British-owned bar industry. As for poorer countries, Dacia and Skoda are selling well and competing against French, Italian, Japanese, Korean and, now, a growing Chinese presence. Blaming others for the UK’s own home grown failures is a major problem because it stops cure and innovation… Or alternatively the demise of the British car industry is because of the growing number of German and other cars. BTW Skodas are VWs. When we joined the Common Market most of the cars in Britain were British. You very rarely saw foreign cars. When we joined the Common Market in 1975 we immediately exposed all our industry to open competition in order to get free trade. So more foreign cars were bought, but not many of the prestige brands because they were too expensive. What really propelled the likes of BMW and Mercedes into the mass market was the euro. Suddenly these cars were affordable. The worrying thing for Germany is that it's slipped into recession - even when it has an artificially low exchange rate. Of course there were other factors in the demise of our car industry - as I said. The unions' actions - which were politically motivated as they are today - crippled our car industry. But basically there was never any way that our car industry could compete with German cars - especially when they later also got access to cheap labour in eastern Europe. The EU has destroyed our industry and our politicians, with their net zero obsession, are busy destroying what little is left. The EU ravaged many industries, and the state aid laws of the EU forbade government from assisting. When Rover went to the wall it was no coincidence that government didn't bail it out. Government wasn't allowed. It was against the EU's laws. TFEU101. Funny how lefties including the SNATs love an organisation that forbids left wing economic policies. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 9:05:01 GMT
Or alternatively the demise of the British car industry is because of the growing number of German and other cars. BTW Skodas are VWs. When we joined the Common Market most of the cars in Britain were British. You very rarely saw foreign cars. When we joined the Common Market in 1975 we immediately exposed all our industry to open competition in order to get free trade. So more foreign cars were bought, but not many of the prestige brands because they were too expensive. What really propelled the likes of BMW and Mercedes into the mass market was the euro. Suddenly these cars were affordable. The worrying thing for Germany is that it's slipped into recession - even when it has an artificially low exchange rate. Of course there were other factors in the demise of our car industry - as I said. The unions' actions - which were politically motivated as they are today - crippled our car industry. But basically there was never any way that our car industry could compete with German cars - especially when they later also got access to cheap labour in eastern Europe. The EU has destroyed our industry and our politicians, with their net zero obsession, are busy destroying what little is left. The EU ravaged many industries, and the state aid laws of the EU forbade government from assisting. When Rover went to the wall it was no coincidence that government didn't bail it out. Government wasn't allowed. It was against the EU's laws. TFEU101. Funny how lefties including the SNATs love an organisation that forbids left wing economic policies. Vinny you are like a rabid dog barking incessantly.
Im not putting forth a view for or against in the EU in my recent posts. Im simply correcting the nonsense you talk about euro membership , or discussing with steppenwolf that globalisation and its side effects on industry is worldwide not just a uk /EU problem.
If you dont at least try and post a fair and balanced view on issues , no matter how much you hate the EU , you will be even more ridiculed than normal.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 24, 2023 9:29:20 GMT
I suppose a bitter jealousy towards England and a desire to see economic failure in it may drive the SNATs love of the EU, but that doesn't explain lefties in the rest of the country supporting the shitty project.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 10:15:36 GMT
I suppose a bitter jealousy towards England and a desire to see economic failure in it may drive the SNATs love of the EU, but that doesn't explain lefties in the rest of the country supporting the shitty project. so you cant debate the content in my posts , so wafflle onto moving from global and european wide issues to bleating once more about internal uk politics and constitutional issues.
You are one of the people on this forum barely worth my time vinny. So little of what you write can actually be construed as debate and discussion .
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Post by Vinny on Jul 24, 2023 10:40:42 GMT
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 10:52:13 GMT
Why do so many self styled lefties support an organisation whose policies are contrary to their own politics? who are you gibbering about now vinny. Im not a leftie. Many traditional left wing politicians , for example galloway and corbyn were firmly against the EU.
Many centirsts are for the EU.
The eu has many policies on many things , much of which is in line with your westmsinter governments policy over the past number of decades , probaly since the days of the old EEC , and some of which contradicts home grown policy.
You left the club vinny , so stop moaning about the rules .
You need to be self confident in brexit , instead of gibbering in fright everytime someone talks about the EU.
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Post by patman post on Jul 24, 2023 11:13:34 GMT
Plenty of VWs alongside other bread and butter cars before the euro. But there weren’t that many Rolls, Bentley, Daimler, either. The growing number of German and other foreign cars on the UK market is because of the demise of British-owned bar industry. As for poorer countries, Dacia and Skoda are selling well and competing against French, Italian, Japanese, Korean and, now, a growing Chinese presence. Blaming others for the UK’s own home grown failures is a major problem because it stops cure and innovation… You miss the point. We stopped free trade agreements with complimentary economies and sought free trade with competitor economies. In the EEC and the EU we were locked inside a protectionist customs union, unable to trade tariff free with complimentary economies, our currency was overvalued, and without a level playing field in the EU, i.e. parity in taxes, wages and currency values, our high tax high wage and overvalued currency economy struggled and experienced industrial decline.
We're the country which sparked the world's industrial revolution and we killed our own industries on the alter of the single market.
We caused high unemployment.
EU membership was a self inflicted massive wound.
It did NOT work.
You miss the point — we haven’t replaced the free trade agreement we had with equivalent agreements. And imagine the apoplexy of yourself and others if taxes, wages and currency values had been forced on the UK. Even the US enjoys different state tax and company laws. The UK was known as the sick man of Europe because of its industrial unrest, poor productivity and outdated manufacting and infrastructure when it first applied to join the EEC, and it was one of the reasons De Gaulle said Non! Are you now suggesting the industrial revolution earns the UK a special place in the world? If so you’re ignoring the fact that others had caught up with with the UK and frequently surpassed it — eg, cars and commercial vehicles, energy generation, digitisation, etc, etc. It was the constant carping of Far Right and Tory Little Englanders, Tunbridge Wells blue rinse and Col Blimp xenophobics that pushed the UK with its specific opt-outs into becoming semi-detached members of the EU and, with constant lying about how the EU was ruling UK citizens’ lives, finally got their way and pushed the UK into its current deteriorating economic state… |
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Post by patman post on Jul 24, 2023 11:27:35 GMT
Or alternatively the demise of the British car industry is because of the growing number of German and other cars. BTW Skodas are VWs. When we joined the Common Market most of the cars in Britain were British. You very rarely saw foreign cars. When we joined the Common Market in 1975 we immediately exposed all our industry to open competition in order to get free trade. So more foreign cars were bought, but not many of the prestige brands because they were too expensive. What really propelled the likes of BMW and Mercedes into the mass market was the euro. Suddenly these cars were affordable. The worrying thing for Germany is that it's slipped into recession - even when it has an artificially low exchange rate. Of course there were other factors in the demise of our car industry - as I said. The unions' actions - which were politically motivated as they are today - crippled our car industry. But basically there was never any way that our car industry could compete with German cars - especially when they later also got access to cheap labour in eastern Europe. The EU has destroyed our industry and our politicians, with their net zero obsession, are busy destroying what little is left. The EU ravaged many industries, and the state aid laws of the EU forbade government from assisting. When Rover went to the wall it was no coincidence that government didn't bail it out. Government wasn't allowed. It was against the EU's laws. TFEU101. Funny how lefties including the SNATs love an organisation that forbids left wing economic policies. How many times should the state intervene to save a poorly managed mass manufacturer of mostly outdated, poor quality products? Rover’s preceding incarnation had been nationalised before it got sold on. MG Rover’s final collapse came under some of its former managers… |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 24, 2023 13:02:18 GMT
Or alternatively the demise of the British car industry is because of the growing number of German and other cars. BTW Skodas are VWs. Are there german cars etc steppenwolf? The plaques of these car companies might be based in paris london or berlin , but the cars and their components are made worldwide.
The british car industry isnt the only one that has had problems . When i first went to france twenty odd years or so ago , almost all the cars on th road were renault or citroen/ peugot. Now its every make and model.
During the sarkozy presidency , citroen started moving production of the new berlngo to eastern europe for cost saving , and the french went up in arms about it. I read a figure a while back at least twenty per cent of the goods if not more ciruclating europe are actually chinese made.
So its a problem many countires in the west are facing wether cars or anything else. They need cheap manufacturing wether its china or elsewhere for profits , whle they need us in the west to coff up and buy their products.
Another problem we have is the false and misleading implication certain goods and vehicles are being built i nthe uk. I was a caravaner for many years , for example i had bailey of bristol caravans. I mind being told by an engineer that the bailey caravans come to the uk on a boat from china , and are then put together in a factory in the uk which is why they get to call it a british caravan.
Wether we are in the EU or not , the modern world is so entertwined there are no real such things as british/german/ french etc cars or caravans .
You make a valid point. As I've said on another thread China is now the biggest manufacturer in the world and, because it holds down the exchange rate of its currency, most countries can't compete with it. It's now moving to take over the world production of car batteries (by subsidising energy and producing it cheaply in coal fired power stations) and to "nudge" the rest of the world into mandating electric cars - for the simple reason that it will then be able to take over the global production of cars - because anyone can make electric cars. But. at the moment, there are still such things as German cars. There aren't any British cars but there ARE German cars. And the simple reason for that is because the German govt subsidises its national producer VW-Audi. They've recently had to fork out about £30 billion in fines for cheating the emissions tests. This is the kind of money that would make any car company go bankrupt - but they survive. Why? Because the German govt has paid the fines. This is obviously state subsidy and if we'd every tried to bail out any of our car companies we'd have been stopped by the EU. But Germany gets away with it. All our car manufacturers have gone but Germany still has ALL its prestige brands. As to the general point about industry getting more global, it certainly has been for several decades. But we're seeing an increasing amount of protectionism coming in recently. The EU has always been protectionist (with regard to Germany and France anyway) but the threat from China and the recent problems with energy prices have made countries more aware of the dangers of outsourcing industry. Sadly our poor politicians have still not woken up to the threat. They've destroyed our industry and now they're destroying our country. |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 24, 2023 15:23:57 GMT
You miss the point — we haven’t replaced the free trade agreement we had with equivalent agreements. And imagine the apoplexy of yourself and others if taxes, wages and currency values had been forced on the UK. Even the US enjoys different state tax and company laws. The UK was known as the sick man of Europe because of its industrial unrest, poor productivity and outdated manufacting and infrastructure when it first applied to join the EEC, and it was one of the reasons De Gaulle said Non! Are you now suggesting the industrial revolution earns the UK a special place in the world? If so you’re ignoring the fact that others had caught up with with the UK and frequently surpassed it — eg, cars and commercial vehicles, energy generation, digitisation, etc, etc. It was the constant carping of Far Right and Tory Little Englanders, Tunbridge Wells blue rinse and Col Blimp xenophobics that pushed the UK with its specific opt-outs into becoming semi-detached members of the EU and, with constant lying about how the EU was ruling UK citizens’ lives, finally got their way and pushed the UK into its current deteriorating economic state… A bit one-dimensional for me. The US is a federal system the EU is not. The UK messed around with interest rates making it difficult for investors as they could not plan with certainty so this damaged reinvestment that was certainly needed in automobile industry. De Gaulle also thought we were too politically close to the US and we have seen this view just recently with Macron protesting about the EU hiring an American for a senior EU role. Part of our problem is our military links with the US ( in part as they protect the old commonwealth nations) so we spend billions annually in supporting US military adventurism. You are falling for the Dailymail, Daily Mirorr and Sun headlines with your description of people wanting Brexit. It is interesting to now see the march of the Right in Europe with Spain being the latest country to feel its rise. Is it because of the UK or do they just see similar problems? |
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Post by patman post on Jul 24, 2023 17:40:33 GMT
You miss the point — we haven’t replaced the free trade agreement we had with equivalent agreements. And imagine the apoplexy of yourself and others if taxes, wages and currency values had been forced on the UK. Even the US enjoys different state tax and company laws. The UK was known as the sick man of Europe because of its industrial unrest, poor productivity and outdated manufacting and infrastructure when it first applied to join the EEC, and it was one of the reasons De Gaulle said Non! Are you now suggesting the industrial revolution earns the UK a special place in the world? If so you’re ignoring the fact that others had caught up with with the UK and frequently surpassed it — eg, cars and commercial vehicles, energy generation, digitisation, etc, etc. It was the constant carping of Far Right and Tory Little Englanders, Tunbridge Wells blue rinse and Col Blimp xenophobics that pushed the UK with its specific opt-outs into becoming semi-detached members of the EU and, with constant lying about how the EU was ruling UK citizens’ lives, finally got their way and pushed the UK into its current deteriorating economic state… A bit one-dimensional for me. The US is a federal system the EU is not. The UK messed around with interest rates making it difficult for investors as they could not plan with certainty so this damaged reinvestment that was certainly needed in automobile industry. De Gaulle also thought we were too politically close to the US and we have seen this view just recently with Macron protesting about the EU hiring an American for a senior EU role. Part of our problem is our military links with the US ( in part as they protect the old commonwealth nations) so we spend billions annually in supporting US military adventurism. You are falling for the Dailymail, Daily Mirorr and Sun headlines with your description of people wanting Brexit. It is interesting to now see the march of the Right in Europe with Spain being the latest country to feel its rise. Is it because of the UK or do they just see similar problems? It was all one dimensional — the majority of English dislike foreigners living here…. |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 24, 2023 19:46:09 GMT
It was all one dimensional — the majority of English dislike foreigners living here…. Not quite, we don't mind a few yet we have been forced to accept millions without any vote. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 25, 2023 6:13:05 GMT
I remember when I lived in Belgium and had to keep bags of francs (Belgian and French), guilder, deutsche mark (and pounds) in the glove box. Nobody wants to go back to that. It may sound like a good idea from your perspective in granny's basement but for us folk out in the real world it's simply barmy. i recall after john major’s lies about the Maastricht treaty but before the Euro came about, banks ripped me off by stealing one franc in five and one lira in six to put my invoiced funds paid in those currencies in a british bank in Sterling and had you come to me and suggested a single currency then i would have gladly helped germany restore the reichsmark as the only currency of europe. But as we now all know, a currency is unstable without a financial framework and whike the federalists hold out for their pipedream the reality is keeping parity of prices across twenty seven states without a common tax and legal infrastructure is simply herding cats. I know Croatia has joined the Euro and i wonder what this will do to the price of beer and fish in the tourist bars and restaurants of Split. I’ll let you know in six weeks time. I suspect my holiday will cost a bloody sight more than my neighbour’s did when he was paying in strange and silly money. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 25, 2023 9:31:54 GMT
I remember when I lived in Belgium and had to keep bags of francs (Belgian and French), guilder, deutsche mark (and pounds) in the glove box. Nobody wants to go back to that. It may sound like a good idea from your perspective in granny's basement but for us folk out in the real world it's simply barmy. i recall after john major’s lies about the Maastricht treaty but before the Euro came about, banks ripped me off by stealing one franc in five and one lira in six to put my invoiced funds paid in those currencies in a british bank in Sterling and had you come to me and suggested a single currency then i would have gladly helped germany restore the reichsmark as the only currency of europe. But as we now all know, a currency is unstable without a financial framework and while the federalists hold out for their pipedream the reality is keeping parity of prices across twenty seven states without a common tax and legal infrastructure is simply herding cats.I know Croatia has joined the Euro and i wonder what this will do to the price of beer and fish in the tourist bars and restaurants of Split. I’ll let you know in six weeks time. I suspect my holiday will cost a bloody sight more than my neighbour’s did when he was paying in strange and silly money. Exactly, without fiscal union, the Euro doesn't work. |
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BTW Skodas are VWs.
