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Post by Vinny on Jul 14, 2023 9:07:31 GMT
Ok, at the moment, the energy companies are making huge profits.
Anyone care to argue for the nationalisation of energy? Or should we continue with the status quo, but tax them properly?
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Post by wapentake on Jul 14, 2023 9:13:33 GMT
Ok, at the moment, the energy companies are making huge profits. Anyone care to argue for the nationalisation of energy? Or should we continue with the status quo, but tax them properly? Well energy companies in name only they’re are nothing more than middlemen out for themselves. I understand there are those who object to nationalisation and they say they never work (they can and have but that’s another story) but there is a possible solution regional suppliers and all mutuals,it could work.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 14, 2023 10:33:13 GMT
Depends on why you want Nationalisation. If it is better service for the customer then you might as well not waste your time.
However if it is just a principle that core sectors of the economy should be in State hands then you could have a valid argument in favour.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 14, 2023 10:35:39 GMT
This is a forum, it's just a topic for debate.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 14, 2023 10:44:38 GMT
Certain sectors of the economy are natural monopolies in which prioritising shareholder returns over the public interest and effective operation can be counter-productive. Power generation and distribution is one of them, railways another. Probably all utilities in fact.
Nobody would dream of privatising the armed forces, would they? But then perhaps some extreme fundamentalist neo-liberals just might.
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Post by distant on Jul 14, 2023 10:46:48 GMT
I think water should be nationalised for sure.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 14, 2023 11:25:15 GMT
Depends on why you want Nationalisation. If it is better service for the customer then you might as well not waste your time. However if it is just a principle that core sectors of the economy should be in State hands then you could have a valid argument in favour. I think the argument for nationalisation of some things is best argued by viewing the economics of the direct run railway company that had to take over when virgin / stagecoach (??) threw tbe franchise on the old LNER line back. I know the horrors of the British Rail plastic cheese sandwich but that was down to state disinterest. Right now the french energy companies are screwing us in order to give the french a huge discount on the price of their energy bills. And our trains are owned and run by the nationalised industries of other countries, most of whom hate us There is an argument that steelmaking should never have been allowed out of state hands.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 14, 2023 18:49:39 GMT
The biggest argument against is the hash the nationalised industries made the last time around.
I can just about remember the 1970s, public transport beyond dire, endless power cuts, strikes etc etc.
No thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 22:23:45 GMT
The biggest argument against is the hash the nationalised industries made the last time around. I can just about remember the 1970s, public transport beyond dire, endless power cuts, strikes etc etc. No thanks. That is not universally true in my experience. Since being privatised, local bus fares in Plymouth have rocketed, reliability has plummeted and routes have been slashed. Public transport worked much better here when owned by the council. Postal services have greatly increased in cost and deteriorated sharply in service. My friend sent me a birthday card by first class post from her home town 25 miles away. It took six days to get here. Walking 5 miles a day then setting up camp each night, I could have made the journey faster. The privatised railways are an obvious disaster compared to what we had before, which might well have been rubbish but has clearly gotten a lot worse since. And for water we are paying a lot more for a lot less too. Privatisation is a massive failure. We need to do what most other western economies do successfully for such services and adopt a public model that works.
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Post by borchester on Jul 14, 2023 23:07:45 GMT
In 1977 when my wife was expecting, I rang up the nationalised British Telecom and asked to have a phone installed. I was told that there was an 18 month waiting list. British Rail provided trains between strikes. There was a choice between the Electricity and Gas boards or fuck all.
And for anyone with a vision of the nationalised industries as the home of the sea green incorruptibles, I solved the telephone problem by tipping a pair of British Telecom workers and had a phone installed that afternoon.
I never experience the golden age of nationalised industries, but that might be because I never received my pair of rose tinted spectacles
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 15, 2023 5:18:44 GMT
The biggest argument against is the hash the nationalised industries made the last time around. I can just about remember the 1970s, public transport beyond dire, endless power cuts, strikes etc etc. No thanks. That is not universally true in my experience. Since being privatised, local bus fares in Plymouth have rocketed, reliability has plummeted and routes have been slashed. Public transport worked much better here when owned by the council. Postal services have greatly increased in cost and deteriorated sharply in service. My friend sent me a birthday card by first class post from her home town 25 miles away. It took six days to get here. Walking 5 miles a day then setting up camp each night, I could have made the journey faster. The privatised railways are an obvious disaster compared to what we had before, which might well have been rubbish but has clearly gotten a lot worse since. And for water we are paying a lot more for a lot less too. Privatisation is a massive failure. We need to do what most other western economies do successfully for such services and adopt a public model that works. I'm frankly surprised that a capitalist stalwart like yourself would want to swell the ranks of us taxpayer-funded public sector workers. After all, we mainly get paid for pushing a pen around in some office while imagining ourselves to be hard workers. 😉 When we're not on strike of course.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 15, 2023 6:29:51 GMT
The biggest argument against is the hash the nationalised industries made the last time around. I can just about remember the 1970s, public transport beyond dire, endless power cuts, strikes etc etc. No thanks. That is not universally true in my experience. Since being privatised, local bus fares in Plymouth have rocketed, reliability has plummeted and routes have been slashed. Public transport worked much better here when owned by the council. Postal services have greatly increased in cost and deteriorated sharply in service. My friend sent me a birthday card by first class post from her home town 25 miles away. It took six days to get here. Walking 5 miles a day then setting up camp each night, I could have made the journey faster. The privatised railways are an obvious disaster compared to what we had before, which might well have been rubbish but has clearly gotten a lot worse since. And for water we are paying a lot more for a lot less too. Privatisation is a massive failure. We need to do what most other western economies do successfully for such services and adopt a public model that works.Yes but what public model?. The UK is the ideal testing ground - in England we have Privatised Water companies, in Wales its not for profit and in Scotland its Nationalised. And what we have found is that all 3 systems are basically the same when it comes to performance and the privatised companies slightly ahead on costs to the customer. So tell us what you want and what the improvement you will be expecting to see - I think you might be in line for some disappointment.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 15, 2023 6:44:33 GMT
I remember sending a postcard from Scotland to a friend in England pre privatisation of the Royal Mail.
It took a month to reach its destination.
I'd hoped that the Royal Mail might have improved a bit now.
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Post by Handyman on Jul 15, 2023 11:12:46 GMT
The only times the Railways ran on time 24/7 was during both World Wars, they had no choice
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Post by Vinny on Jul 15, 2023 14:16:25 GMT
The Railways were privately owned during the world wars.
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