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Post by Vinny on Jul 17, 2023 11:27:46 GMT
First restore the ban on waste meat products to feed herbivores.
Secondly stop subsidising farms based on acreage of farmable land and subsidise on a means tested basis.
Those who genuinely need subsidy, provide it, those who don't such as billionaires, don't subsidise.
Provide funds for the replanting of hedgerows and trees around fields.
Discourage the destruction of natural habitats.
Accommodate predatory species who feed on rats and other pests.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 17, 2023 11:36:05 GMT
Tell me more about this ban on feeding meat to herbivores. It sounds like a bad thing to do so why would the EU approve it when memories of what happened in the UK still linger?
A link would be helpful.
We can go through your other points in turn in due course.
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 17, 2023 11:43:17 GMT
First restore the ban on waste meat products to feed herbivores. Secondly stop subsidising farms based on acreage of farmable land and subsidise on a means tested basis. Those who genuinely need subsidy, provide it, those who don't such as billionaires, don't subsidise. Provide funds for the replanting of hedgerows and trees around fields. Discourage the destruction of natural habitats. Accommodate predatory species who feed on rats and other pests. Your last 3 points are already enacted. Payments for hedgerows and wildlife corridors are already in place as are very tight restrictions on muck heaps to stop them leaching nitrates into the watercourse. Muck heaps have to be a minimum distance from drainage ditches and covered in tilts to prevent nitrates being washed away by rain. These are all EU directives which are still in force in the UK post Brexit. I agree with your other points but will point out that BSE was caused by using feeds made from animals infected with scrapies (a brain disease in sheep and goats) and there are tight controls to ensure that does not happen. BSE will not make a comeback but I agree that herbivores shouldn't really be fed animal products (except their mother's milk). |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 17, 2023 11:45:41 GMT
food.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-08/qa-animal-feed-auth-proteins_en_2.pdfHere is the approval. Upon closer inspection they have not extended the approval to cattle yet. But they have extended the approval to chicken feed and pig feed. Pigs are omnivores I know. But PAP is a waste meat product based on the crappiest bits. It is not wholesome, you wouldn't feed it to a dog. So why are they feeding it to animals? In the EU the Commission are answerable to lobbyists, not voters. Big industrial lobbyists push them and they do as asked. That's the biggest problem with the EU. If it had an elected body instead of the Commission they would have to listen to voters.
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 17, 2023 11:49:33 GMT
food.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-08/qa-animal-feed-auth-proteins_en_2.pdfHere is the approval. Upon closer inspection they have not extended the approval to cattle yet. But they have extended the approval to chicken feed and pig feed. Pigs are omnivores I know. But PAP is a waste meat product based on the crappiest bits. It is not wholesome, you wouldn't feed it to a dog. So why are they feeding it to animals? In the EU the Commission are answerable to lobbyists, not voters. Big industrial lobbyists push them and they do as asked. That's the biggest problem with the EU. If it had an elected body instead of the Commission they would have to listen to voters. Chickens are also omnivores. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 17, 2023 12:00:55 GMT
True. But PAP is still crap.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 17, 2023 12:31:21 GMT
food.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-08/qa-animal-feed-auth-proteins_en_2.pdfHere is the approval. Upon closer inspection they have not extended the approval to cattle yet. But they have extended the approval to chicken feed and pig feed. Pigs are omnivores I know. But PAP is a waste meat product based on the crappiest bits. It is not wholesome, you wouldn't feed it to a dog. So why are they feeding it to animals? In the EU the Commission are answerable to lobbyists, not voters. Big industrial lobbyists push them and they do as asked. That's the biggest problem with the EU. If it had an elected body instead of the Commission they would have to listen to voters. I personally don't care for this change on the part of the EU however as presented at your source it does not appear to be a major problem as far as the science is concerned.
I'd also say it seems remarkably similar to the UK government's own guidance on the use of animal by-products as farm animal feed. Like the EU, the UK bans their use with ruminants.
The UK guidance also long pre-dates the EU regulations (2014 versus 2021).
Isn't a little hypocritical to demand that the EU restores its ban when the UK is following much the protocols?
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 17, 2023 12:54:56 GMT
And so onto subsidies: "Secondly stop subsidising farms based on acreage of farmable land and subsidise on a means tested basis. Those who genuinely need subsidy, provide it, those who don't such as billionaires, don't subsidise." I'm by no means an expert on the CAP which is of Byzantine complexity, but as I understand it subsidies are given on the basis of production, not acreage. The two are of course related but reforms over the years have included the abolition of land set-asides and new measures for environmental stewardship. Again, it's all remarkably similar to current British policy, with the exception that subsidies (Basic Payment Sceme) are still being made on the basis of acreage (1 Ha land gives one entitlement unit for the BPS, with 5 Ha minimum needed to qualify). I understand this is going to be replaced in 2028 but for the present UK policy is almost identical to the old CAP pre-reform. www.gov.uk/government/publications/basic-payment-scheme-2023Methinks thou complaineth overmuch. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 17, 2023 13:15:47 GMT
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 18, 2023 11:09:46 GMT
Call that a feedlot?!?
Now this is what you call a feedlot...
The Harris Feeding Co., or 'Cowschwitz' as the locals call it, in Kettleman, California. The 800 acre site 'accommodates' up to 120,000 beasts at any one point in time.
There are feedlots in Texas and probably also in Australia that are much larger than this. There's one in Colorado that has over 900,000 head.
There's nothing in the EU even remotely approaching this scale.
"There are no 'factory farms' and no feedlots. I still await evidence to the contrary". I've just demonstrated how much rubbish you were talking. I also gave an example on one of the previous pages where intensive farming happens in Spain. You actually believed, 500 million people in Europe were fed agri-food through free-range grazing. Hehe. |
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