|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 10:04:36 GMT
There is no such thing as an EU national. The EU is not a nation. If you are a citizen from the EU you are a citizen of a member country. If a citizen from one member country migrates to another member country, they are an immigrant whether you like that or not. Stop digging Vinny.
"EU citizenship is granted automatically to anyone who holds the nationality of an EU country...As an EU national, you have the right to live and move within the EU without being discriminated against on the grounds of nationality. You can also benefit from greater consumer protection than in your home country and, provided you meet certain requirements, can access healthcare anywhere in the EU."
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 10:17:08 GMT
Digging? Moi ?
See?
If you go from one sovereign country, to live in another, you are an immigrant irrespective of whether both sovereign countries are members of a crappy political customs union.
The EU system gives immigrants from other EU countries, preference over immigrants from the rest of the world.
It judges people not on what they can do, or what they have done (if they're criminals), but if they have citizenship of the EU.
It's a fucking silly idea.
In many cases immigrants can't even speak the language of the countries they move to.
The system means people can take a gamble with their lives that they're going "to do the jobs the locals don't want", only to find it was bollocks, and they're destitute.
There's no security in it, only the risk of being sent home penniless.
The visa system is superior because you have to be prepared first.
You have to have savings.
You have to have a clean record, not a serious criminal one.
The visa system isn't a whiteys club, it's open to anyone who is good enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 10:30:25 GMT
Surely it's for the EU, or rather its individual member states to decide what their immigration policy entails and not for outsiders to lecture them on the matter.
If Germany prefers to extend job opportunities to French people or Austrians rather than Indians or Nigerians what business is it of anyone else's?
|
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Jul 12, 2023 10:32:43 GMT
There is no such thing as an EU national. The EU is not a nation. If you are a citizen from the EU you are a citizen of a member country. If a citizen from one member country migrates to another member country, they are an immigrant whether you like that or not. Stop digging Vinny.
"EU citizenship is granted automatically to anyone who holds the nationality of an EU country...As an EU national, you have the right to live and move within the EU without being discriminated against on the grounds of nationality. You can also benefit from greater consumer protection than in your home country and, provided you meet certain requirements, can access healthcare anywhere in the EU."
The EU isn't a nation. Just because it institutionalises itself as one that doesn't mean the average German will consider a Romanian a fellow national. In fact, more people than not will see the 'other' as an immigrant and not a fellow national. Not everyone listens to, or falls for what the technocrats tell them. And that fundamentally is why the EU will never be a nation because there is no common and deep-seated homogeny among the people of Europe, no matter how hard the EU tries to engineer it. Aspirations and reality are different. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 10:44:36 GMT
I didn't become an immigrant in France until the UK left the EU. As a result I was required to apply for permission to reside in France and was subsequently issued a Carte de Sejours (residence card) which hadn't been required before. Now I am considered to be a non-EU national and as such do not have FoM rights in the EU. Many expat Brits are now applying for French citizenship in order to retrieve their FoM rights.
If I decided to move to Spain without becoming an EU national then I would have to apply for a visa and go though the immigration system in order to be eventually (hopefully) granted permanent residence. None of that would have been necessary prior to Brexit, we would have just loaded the van and moved completely bypassing the immigration system. Just as millions of East Europeans did when moving to the UK. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 12, 2023 10:59:51 GMT
Despite all claims to the contrary and prevailing Brexiteer mythology EU nationals who take up residence in another member state are are not considered by authorities in this states as immigrants, and are not counted as such. It isn't true that EU nationals from a non-Schengen state eg Denmark have to go through 'immigration formalities' when arriving in the Schengen zone. In most cases the options are 'EU/EEA' and 'non-EU', I have never seen an 'EU non-Schengen' option. In land crossings such as the Danish-German border there are spot checks based on whether immigration officials are concerned about a threat to public security (or illegal immigrants) but certainly no special queues for Danes to get their passport stamped. Rather than sitting in Granny's basement tapping out anti-EU propaganda some of you guys would be better off doing a bit of actual travelling and then you might not be so inclined to spout such nonsense.
Oops - Denmark is in the Schengen zone, my mistake. The only EU members which are not are Cyprus, Romania and Bulgaria.
Every time I went from the UK into the Schengen Zone when we were members of the EU I had to go through immigration controls. Are you claiming that should not have happened? |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 11:09:05 GMT
When that happened it wouldn't have been because you were a UK national but because you'd arrived from somewhere outside the zone and until they've had a look at your passport they wouldn't know where you originated. Once you presented a UK passport you would be deemed exempt from immigration control and waved through. The Nigerian behind you would have had a much harder time.
I can assure that if you arrive by air into France you will not be presented with the option of a separate channel for non-Schengen EU passport holders, just EU/EEA and non-EU. As far as I'm aware that's always been the case, unless the flight arrives from another Schengen area country in which case there as likely as not won't be any checks at all. At least not overt ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 11:35:05 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 11:40:32 GMT
I see no such double standards. EU nationals are entitled to take advantage of their treaty rights to freedom of movement no matter what colour they are, black, brown or sky-blue pink with yellow dots.
Your argument, if it can even called that, is completely specious. And as far actual, real immigration is concerned, as asked earlier, do you consider that Germany say should be required to craft its immigration policies to comply with the universalist-egalitarian maunderings of fantasists such as your goodself? IF yes, why?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 11:43:28 GMT
The EU is not a nation.
People living in France from Romania are not French, they are Romanian immigrants.
People living in the Netherlands from Poland are not Dutch, they are Polish immigrants.
|
|
