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Post by oracle75 on Jul 11, 2023 14:49:02 GMT
No you are absolutely wrong, an EU national exercising his treaty right to FoM is not an immigrant anymore than someone moving from Toronto to Vancouver or Sydney to Perth. An immigrant in the EU context is someone who moves into an EU member state from outside the EU. Even the UK government accepted this distinction. Until Brexit, EU nationals resident in the UK were never included in the quarterly Control of Immigration statistics compiled by the Home Office for the simple reason that they were not considered to be immigrants. Indeed. Someone with UK citizenship never had to oobtain a right of residency in the EU until Brexit. There were no controls over entry or exit, length of stay or purpose or travel. Anymore than if you moved from Wales to Scotland or Ohio to Oregon. Which is why from Jan 2024, UK residents will need a visa to enter the EU where as EU members, they did not. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 15:22:21 GMT
No you are absolutely wrong, an EU national exercising his treaty right to FoM is not an immigrant anymore than someone moving from Toronto to Vancouver or Sydney to Perth. Of course they are. The EU is not a country. Toronto and Vancouver are in the same country. Subject to the same laws, wage standards and taxes. Sydney and Perth, the same.
Member states of the EU have different laws, wage standards and taxes.
Pay in one member state can be fairly shit, whilst in another, so shit that "fairly shit" is comparatively good. So the immigrants go, take jobs that others can't afford to take because the pay is so shit, and wages get compressed.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 16:46:48 GMT
"Member states of the EU have different laws, wage standards and taxes."
As do the constituent states of the Commonwealth of Australia and the provinces of Canada. I'm guessing you've haven't spent much time in either.
But none of which has any bearing on the status enjoyed by EU nationals who have taken advantage of their Treaty Rights to take up residence in a another member state. Despite your insistence they are 'immigrants', and despite being told repeatedly that they are not, you may be the only person in Europe that believes that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2023 19:30:31 GMT
I remember looking at various jobs on the NHS jobs website when we were in the EU.
The website made it clear that preference had to be given to EU nationals over any other applicant.
This was indirectly discriminatory against the rest of the world, of course. Surely this is what Vinny refers to in his OP.
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 11, 2023 20:41:32 GMT
I remember looking at various jobs on the NHS jobs website when we were in the EU. The website made it clear that preference had to be given to EU nationals over any other applicant. This was indirectly discriminatory against the rest of the world, of course. Surely this is what Vinny refers to in his OP. No.he used the word "racist". And now he supports the preference for UK trained personel. He cant think further than half the word "hypocritical". |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 20:47:33 GMT
"Member states of the EU have different laws, wage standards and taxes." As do the constituent states of the Commonwealth of Australia and the provinces of Canada. I'm guessing you've haven't spent much time in either. But none of which has any bearing on the status enjoyed by EU nationals who have taken advantage of their Treaty Rights to take up residence in a another member state. Despite your insistence they are 'immigrants', and despite being told repeatedly that they are not, you may be the only person in Europe that believes that. The EU is not a nation. It's a collection of countries. If you're Canadian, you can vote anywhere in Canada. If you're Australian, you can vote anywhere in Australia. If you're Polish, you can only vote in Polish national elections and EU Parliament elections, you have no say on who the President of France is, even if you've spent 15 years living in France. If you're Polish in France, you're an immigrant there. The EU is a badly run political project. It needs reform and even they accept it needs reform. www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32122/parliament-activates-process-to-change-eu-treaties |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 20:53:32 GMT
Vinny your increasingly desperate efforts to claim that EU nationals legally resident in other member states are considered to be immigrants by anyone besides your goodself are sounding lamer and lamer.
I'd pack it in now if I were you before to make yourself look even more foolish than you do already.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 21:00:15 GMT
How are they not "immigrants"?
Care to define how they aren't?
If I move to France I move to another country, I become an immigrant there.
I have French friends who are immigrants here, I have Polish friends who are immigrants here.
They regard themselves as immigrants and always have.
It's just you who doesn't recognise the obvious.
Movement around the EU between member states is immigration. And you know it.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 21:10:11 GMT
"Movement around the EU between member states is immigration. And you know it. "
Having actually done it more than once, I can assure it isn't. Moving from the EU to the USA which I have also done, and from the USA to Singapore, are both immigrations because in both instances you are subject to immigration control which you are not when moving between member states as an EU national.
If you had ever had any experience of either you'd know the difference.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 11, 2023 21:17:02 GMT
"Movement around the EU between member states is immigration. And you know it. " Having actually done it more than once, I can assure it isn't. Moving from the EU to the USA which I have also done, and from the USA to Singapore, are both immigrations because in both instances you are subject to immigration control which you are not when moving between member states as an EU national. That is untrue - any EU citizen from a member state outside of Schengen still has to go through immigration formalities. You should know that being from the UK. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 21:34:10 GMT
"Movement around the EU between member states is immigration. And you know it. " Having actually done it more than once, I can assure it isn't. Moving from the EU to the USA which I have also done, and from the USA to Singapore, are both immigrations because in both instances you are subject to immigration control which you are not when moving between member states as an EU national. If you had ever had any experience of either you'd know the difference. The lack of a visa or formalities, doesn't alter the fact that it's immigration. It's just badly run and not controled at all. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 11, 2023 21:47:14 GMT
Vinny your increasingly desperate efforts to claim that EU nationals legally resident in other member states are considered to be immigrants by anyone besides your goodself are sounding lamer and lamer. I'd pack it in now if I were you before to make yourself look even more foolish than you do already. Is that because you don't like to hear that you yourself are an immigrant? A Romanian national living in France is an immigrant. The nation-state hasn't been fully eroded in Europe quite yet. Technically, there is no such thing as a an EU national. Tell this porkie long enough for it to become fact doesn't wash. Like so many things in the EU, whether it is seeing itself as a nation or democratic these things are only at best aspirational, they're not reality. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 11, 2023 22:12:59 GMT
"Member states of the EU have different laws, wage standards and taxes." As do the constituent states of the Commonwealth of Australia and the provinces of Canada. I'm guessing you've haven't spent much time in either. But none of which has any bearing on the status enjoyed by EU nationals who have taken advantage of their Treaty Rights to take up residence in a another member state. Despite your insistence they are 'immigrants', and despite being told repeatedly that they are not, you may be the only person in Europe that believes that. The EU is not a nation. It's a collection of countries. If you're Canadian, you can vote anywhere in Canada. If you're Australian, you can vote anywhere in Australia. If you're Polish, you can only vote in Polish national elections and EU Parliament elections, you have no say on who the President of France is, even if you've spent 15 years living in France. If you're Polish in France, you're an immigrant there.
The EU is a badly run political project. It needs reform and even they accept it needs reform.www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32122/parliament-activates-process-to-change-eu-treatiesThe dangerous illusion is that the EU is reformable. It isn't, especially not to democratic pressure. The EU has no demos. The only way it reforms is by the discretion of technocrats with vested interests as your link demonstrates, it usurps power in the aftermath of a crisis as justification for eroding the nation-state and allowing itself more 'competences'. That's not the kind of democratic reform which is rooted in a fairly homogenous language, cultural, economic and political group of people - namely the nation-state which only offers genuine democratic legitimacy. As I said, it's simply a power grab behind the illusion of democracy with those of vested interests. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 12, 2023 8:21:55 GMT
Despite all claims to the contrary and prevailing Brexiteer mythology EU nationals who take up residence in another member state are are not considered by authorities in this states as immigrants, and are not counted as such. It isn't true that EU nationals from a non-Schengen state eg Denmark have to go through 'immigration formalities' when arriving in the Schengen zone. In most cases the options are 'EU/EEA' and 'non-EU', I have never seen an 'EU non-Schengen' option. In land crossings such as the Danish-German border there are spot checks based on whether immigration officials are concerned about a threat to public security (or illegal immigrants) but certainly no special queues for Danes to get their passport stamped. Rather than sitting in Granny's basement tapping out anti-EU propaganda some of you guys would be better off doing a bit of actual travelling and then you might not be so inclined to spout such nonsense.
Oops - Denmark is in the Schengen zone, my mistake. The only EU members which are not are Cyprus, Romania and Bulgaria.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 9:55:06 GMT
There is no such thing as an EU national.
The EU is not a nation.
If you are a citizen from the EU you are a citizen of a member country.
If a citizen from one member country migrates to another member country, they are an immigrant whether you like that or not.
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