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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 11:23:25 GMT
The treaty change process is underway.
They now have the opportunity to delete the freedom of movement of EU member state passport holders from it.
A visa system is non racist. They have the opportunity to replace racist free movement with non racist visas and judge people on who they are, rather than whether they're from a mostly white EU member state.
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 12:17:07 GMT
The treaty change process is underway. They now have the opportunity to delete the freedom of movement of EU member state passport holders from it. A visa system is non racist. They have the opportunity to replace racist free movement with non racist visas and judge people on who they are, rather than whether they're from a mostly white EU member state. From the mind that wants to reintroduce workhouses and parachute refugees into Somalia comes ... |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 12:20:40 GMT
Thank you for the thread boost.
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 12:25:48 GMT
Thank you for the thread boost. Always pleased to highlight your stupidity, Iggy. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 12:28:15 GMT
By Vinny's lights the UK's visitor visa system is deeply racist since it overwhelmingly applies to nationals of third world countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America. Residents of the Eurosphere and 'honorary whites' like the Japanese and Koreans are exempt.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 12:56:22 GMT
Nope, the visa system is as fair as you can get because all foreigners are judged on their abilities, and a lack of criminal record not their nationalities.
In case you haven't noticed, we're a small island.
We cannot accommodate everyone.
Judge people on their skills and prioritise the best, wherever they're from.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 13:17:24 GMT
The treaty change process is underway. They now have the opportunity to delete the freedom of movement of EU member state passport holders from it... Why on earth would anyone want to do that? Freedom of movement is one of the four pillars of freedom that EU nationals enjoy. Nobody would ever vote to give it up since to do so you'd have to exit the EU.
PS you don't have to have a passport to take advantage of FoM as an EU national.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 13:18:36 GMT
Freedom of movement fucking sucks.
It drives down wages.
Saturates areas with low paid workers.
It causes poverty.
Without wage parity across the EU it cannot and does not work.
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:22:13 GMT
Freedom of movement fucking sucks. It drives down wages. Saturates areas with low paid workers. It causes poverty. Without wage parity across the EU it cannot and does not work. Better start building walls between England, Scotland, and Wales, then. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 13:24:59 GMT
Freedom of movement fucking sucks. It drives down wages. Saturates areas with low paid workers. It causes poverty. Without wage parity across the EU it cannot and does not work. It works just fine on the continent. But they don't have the same sort of laisser-faire approach to labour market regulation that prevails in the UK
Plus the authorities are much quicker in removing anyone who shouldn't be there, EU nationals or not.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 13:33:30 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 13:53:34 GMT
Nothing's perfect, but FoM is simply not a political issue anywhere in the EU, except perhaps in places like Romania and Bulgaria which have lost much of their skilled labour force. The EU report you cite is only concerned with seasonal workers which, as the term implies, are only temporary and do not have treaty rights to permanently reside in another member state. In addition the report notes that for the EU as a whole most seasonal workers are not EU nationals This is simply a non-issue for the anyone except the professional bleeding-hearts as is the matter of FoM in general. Important to recall that even after almost 70 years of FoM only 25 million (5%) EU nationals reside in a member state other than their own.
"It simply doesn't have the balls to reform its own immigration system"
What immigration system? Immigration is and always has been the exclusive prerogative of individual member states, it is not and never has been an EC competence.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 14:27:56 GMT
Freedom of Movement is the EU's immigration system.
The EU is not a country.
Someone from one EU member state is not a citizen of another. If they go to live and work in another EU member state, they're an immigrant.
Pay disparities across the EU are a huge problem resulting in an emptying of the poorest countries, and a saturated labour market in the richest ones.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 14:35:42 GMT
No you are absolutely wrong, an EU national exercising his treaty right to FoM is not an immigrant anymore than someone moving from Toronto to Vancouver or Sydney to Perth.
An immigrant in the EU context is someone who moves into an EU member state from outside the EU.
Even the UK government accepted this distinction. Until Brexit, EU nationals resident in the UK were never included in the quarterly Control of Immigration statistics compiled by the Home Office for the simple reason that they were not considered to be immigrants.
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 11, 2023 14:42:36 GMT
It is the UK resident/citizen who needs to apply for permisssion to enter the USA.
EU nationals do not.
It is not RACIST to allow any person in the Schengen Zone to cross an EU border freely. It cant be since there are no border checks. They physically dont exist.
OTOH one could make a case for saying that the UK immigration airhorities favour white/light skins, since there are no safe and legal means for those of darker skins (unless they are wealthy) to enter the UK.
I have travelled across Europe and the UK. At no point, either where a visa is or is not necessary, does any application or paper, electronic or hard copy, mention race. The only reference is the photograph in a passport (which is not a visa) and it is internationally illegal to refuse entry or exit on the grounds of race.
It is the kind of argument a fascist would use to say that because an area is of a majority white, FOM is racist. FOM applies to whites, arabs, orientals, jews, those of mixed race and even, with a rabies test, animals. It is utterly blind to race and both EU and international law forbids race to be a factor in opening or closing borders.
Now i can accept flaws to some elements of the EU...but to use racial majority to accuse a minority of being denied freedom of movement is a lie so blatant that it makes me feel quite sick.
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