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Post by buccaneer on Jul 7, 2023 9:53:06 GMT
We've been through this before gnome. Switzerland is NOT part of the Single Market. If it were it would not need any of its bilateral deals with the EU. Use your brain if you have one. Membership of the Single Market means that you surrender all powers to make trade deals for the simple reason that all trade deals have to be made by the EU or EFTA (if you're in the EEA). Otherwise it would be a route for goods that are non-compliant with EU rules into the Single Market. Your statement that "The Single Market is internal to the EU and non-EU members" is complete nonsense. You simply haven't got a clue what you're talking about. As I've said before I suggest you do a bit of concentrated study on what the EU is - you might then change your mind about wanting to be a member. Yes. It is part of the Single Market. You may moan and groan about HOW it got to be part of part of the Single Market but it is non-debatable that Switzerland is, in fact, part of the Single Market. Well done, the Swiss!!! Got in via bilateral deals. And yet, you stated: 'Got away' from an imperial regulator and thwarter of the nation-state who wants to coerce nations under its regime (which is what restructure means). Face it, the Swiss deal was too flexible and autonomous for the EU to allow it to carry on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 10:21:48 GMT
Yes. It is part of the Single Market. You may moan and groan about HOW it got to be part of part of the Single Market but it is non-debatable that Switzerland is, in fact, part of the Single Market. Well done, the Swiss!!! Got in via bilateral deals. And yet, you stated: 'Got away' from an imperial regulator and thwarter of the nation-state who wants to coerce nations under its regime (which is what restructure means). Face it, the Swiss deal was too flexible and autonomous for the EU to allow it to carry on. Yes. Where's the contradiction? But, No. It's not "got away from" but "got away with." It is no secret that the EU now find the Swiss arrangement to be a bit of a "meestek!" I'm not disputing anything about the Swiss arrangements, but I am saying that those arrangements allow them to be part of the Single Market. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 7, 2023 14:22:47 GMT
We've been through this before gnome. Switzerland is NOT part of the Single Market. If it were it would not need any of its bilateral deals with the EU. Use your brain if you have one. Membership of the Single Market means that you surrender all powers to make trade deals for the simple reason that all trade deals have to be made by the EU or EFTA (if you're in the EEA). Otherwise it would be a route for goods that are non-compliant with EU rules into the Single Market. Your statement that "The Single Market is internal to the EU and non-EU members" is complete nonsense. You simply haven't got a clue what you're talking about. As I've said before I suggest you do a bit of concentrated study on what the EU is - you might then change your mind about wanting to be a member. Yes. It is part of the Single Market. You may moan and groan about HOW it got to be part of part of the Single Market but it is non-debatable that Switzerland is, in fact, part of the Single Market. Well done, the Swiss!!! Got in via bilateral deals. I don't really see why you keep posting this nonsense, gnome, if you take absolutely no notice of what people tell you. We know exactly how Switzerland has "gained access to the Single Market". It has done it via bilateral deals. You should read up on the history of this before posting more nonsense. It's actually what we should have done but the Opposition and the Speaker prevented us from doing it by hijacking the govt's agenda and passing the "Surrender Act" - which made it unlawful for us to leave the EU without their permission. However Switzerland has only limited access to the goods of the Single Market. It is NOT part of the Single Market. The Single Market involves agreeing to all 4 pillars of the EU - free movement, free movement of capital and goods etc, which Switzerland has not agreed to. It trades by bilateral deals and only in various sectors. That's why they can make their own trade deals. Any country that's actually in the internal market cannot do this. Give it a break gnome and try to learn something about the structure of the EU before trying to tell us that we should join the SIngle Market. You're an idiot. Even most of the politicians know that this is an impossibility. Starmer - and Sunak - have plainly worked out that the simplest way of subjugating us to the EU is to agree to dynamic alignment with EU rules. This can be done very simply and most of the country -including you - wouldn't even notice it. Because they're completely ignorant of the what the EU is - like you. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 7, 2023 14:26:05 GMT
What Switzerland has done is what our government has done, negotiated a free trade agreement.
And Switzerland's free trade agreement does not extend to financial services.
It is not a full participant in the Single Market, it is not part of the Common Agricultural Policy either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 16:21:11 GMT
Yes. It is part of the Single Market. You may moan and groan about HOW it got to be part of part of the Single Market but it is non-debatable that Switzerland is, in fact, part of the Single Market. Well done, the Swiss!!! Got in via bilateral deals. I don't really see why you keep posting this nonsense, gnome, if you take absolutely no notice of what people tell you. We know exactly how Switzerland has "gained access to the Single Market". It has done it via bilateral deals. You should read up on the history of this before posting more nonsense. It's actually what we should have done but the Opposition and the Speaker prevented us from doing it by hijacking the govt's agenda and passing the "Surrender Act" - which made it unlawful for us to leave the EU without their permission. However Switzerland has only limited access to the goods of the Single Market. It is NOT part of the Single Market. The Single Market involves agreeing to all 4 pillars of the EU - free movement, free movement of capital and goods etc, which Switzerland has not agreed to. It trades by bilateral deals and only in various sectors. That's why they can make their own trade deals. Any country that's actually in the internal market cannot do this.
Give it a break gnome and try to learn something about the structure of the EU before trying to tell us that we should join the SIngle Market. You're an idiot. Even most of the politicians know that this is an impossibility. Starmer - and Sunak - have plainly worked out that the simplest way of subjugating us to the EU is to agree to dynamic alignment with EU rules. This can be done very simply and most of the country -including you - wouldn't even notice it. Because they're completely ignorant of the what the EU is - like you. Any country that's actually in the EU Single Market can negotiate and agree their own trade deals -- as long as they're not in the Customs Union. Look at Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland. They've been doing it for decades! You see, Our Little Dense One, what prevents an EU country from making their own trade deals is the Customs Union. Not the Single Market. If you are in the Single Market, then you drop your borders and barriers and you get to have the 4 FOM. If you are in the Customs Union, then no dice -- you can forget about making your own deals. That's why the UK avoided the bloody thing. And Switzerland is part of the Single Market. It's not up for debate. Sorry. It agrees to the four freedoms of the SM -- strictly speaking, not the EU, btw -- including your worst nightmare, FoM of People. You have obviously deluded yourself that you know more about Switzerland's arrangement with the EU than the Swiss themselves so here below, direct from Swiss Secretariat for Migration website -- read it and weep:  ------- Free Movement of Persons Switzerland – EU/EFTA
On 21 June 1999, the European Union (EU) and Switzerland signed the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP). The AFMP lifts restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland. The right of free movement is complemented by the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, by the right to buy property, and by the coordination of social insurance systems. The same rules also apply to citizens of EFTA member states.
The AFMP came into force in 1 June 2002. Each time the EU is enlarged, the agreement is extended to include the new member states by means of an additional protocol.
------- You need tissue to dry your eyes? Looks like it. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 7, 2023 23:44:57 GMT
And yet, you stated: 'Got away' from an imperial regulator and thwarter of the nation-state who wants to coerce nations under its regime (which is what restructure means). Face it, the Swiss deal was too flexible and autonomous for the EU to allow it to carry on. Yes. Where's the contradiction? But, No. It's not "got away from" but "got away with." It is no secret that the EU now find the Swiss arrangement to be a bit of a "meestek!" I'm not disputing anything about the Swiss arrangements, but I am saying that those arrangements allow them to be part of the Single Market. Code for: Switzerland is too autonomous and flexible, we need to reign that in. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 8, 2023 6:41:29 GMT
What Switzerland has done is what our government has done, negotiated a free trade agreement. And Switzerland's free trade agreement does not extend to financial services. It is not a full participant in the Single Market, it is not part of the Common Agricultural Policy either. Our agreement with the EU is very different from the Swiss agreements. The Swiss negotiated over 100 sectoral trade bilateral agreements over many years - but of course they started their EU agreement from a clean slate which was much tidier. We were forbidden by Parliament from leaving the EU without "a deal" (because of the Surrender Act - the Benn Act) so we have an over-arching agreement called the "EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement" - obviously the "cooperation" bit is a joke. And Switzerland is not ANY part of the Single Market. It has access to free trade in certain sectors of EU trade but that's strictly via bilateral deals. The Swiss have always rejected any involvement in the Single Market despite the fact that their government has tried to persuade them to agree to this. Switzerland remains a "third country" like we are. Which is something I have pointed out on many occasions in relation to all the fuss that the EU has made about the Irish border. The EU has refused to let NI leave the Single Market - citing the land border - when Switzerland has much longer borders with several EU countries yet remains outside the Single Market. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 8, 2023 7:18:24 GMT
Any country that's actually in the EU Single Market can negotiate and agree their own trade deals -- as long as they're not in the Customs Union. Look at Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland. They've been doing it for decades! You see, Our Little Dense One, what prevents an EU country from making their own trade deals is the Customs Union. Not the Single Market. If you are in the Single Market, then you drop your borders and barriers and you get to have the 4 FOM. If you are in the Customs Union, then no dice -- you can forget about making your own deals. That's why the UK avoided the bloody thing. And Switzerland is part of the Single Market. It's not up for debate. Sorry. It agrees to the four freedoms of the SM -- strictly speaking, not the EU, btw -- including your worst nightmare, FoM of People. You have obviously deluded yourself that you know more about Switzerland's arrangement with the EU than the Swiss themselves so here below, direct from Swiss Secretariat for Migration website -- read it and weep: ------- Free Movement of Persons Switzerland – EU/EFTA
On 21 June 1999, the European Union (EU) and Switzerland signed the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP). The AFMP lifts restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland. The right of free movement is complemented by the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, by the right to buy property, and by the coordination of social insurance systems. The same rules also apply to citizens of EFTA member states.
The AFMP came into force in 1 June 2002. Each time the EU is enlarged, the agreement is extended to include the new member states by means of an additional protocol.
------- You need tissue to dry your eyes? Looks like it. You're very confused because you don't understand the basics of the EU. I don't think you've ever actually studied the EU - you've just googled bits here and there so you don't see the big picture. The facts are as follows. No country that's in the Single Market can negotiate their own trade deals. So no EU member can negotiate their own trade deals. You will have seen this during the Brexit negotiations when all our negotiations were conducted with the EU (e.g. Michel Barnier). The only countries that are members of the Single Market are EU members and EEA members (Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway). And none of these countries can negotiate their own trade deals. EU members do it through the EU and EEA members do it through EFTA - and they're all subject to the ECJ. Some other countries (e.g. Switzerland) can trade with the Single Market via bilateral deals but they're not members of the Single Market and therefore CAN negotiate their own deals. Switzerland does not agree to the 4 pillars of the EU and its bilateral deals cover only goods. The "Freedom of Movement" agreement that Switzerland has with the EU is a custom deal negotiated between Switzerland and the EU - as your quote says. It's NOT the FoM agreement that's part of the SIngle market and it does not give the right for people from the EU to go and live in Switzerland. They need to get a residency permit and Switzerland can restrict these - as they did when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. It's all fairly simple when you understand the basic framework, gnome. You really should stop posting disinformation. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 8, 2023 7:53:07 GMT
What Switzerland has done is what our government has done, negotiated a free trade agreement. And Switzerland's free trade agreement does not extend to financial services. It is not a full participant in the Single Market, it is not part of the Common Agricultural Policy either. Our agreement with the EU is very different from the Swiss agreements. The Swiss negotiated over 100 sectoral trade bilateral agreements over many years - but of course they started their EU agreement from a clean slate which was much tidier. We were forbidden by Parliament from leaving the EU without "a deal" (because of the Surrender Act - the Benn Act) so we have an over-arching agreement called the "EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement" - obviously the "cooperation" bit is a joke. And Switzerland is not ANY part of the Single Market. It has access to free trade in certain sectors of EU trade but that's strictly via bilateral deals. The Swiss have always rejected any involvement in the Single Market despite the fact that their government has tried to persuade them to agree to this. Switzerland remains a "third country" like we are. Which is something I have pointed out on many occasions in relation to all the fuss that the EU has made about the Irish border. The EU has refused to let NI leave the Single Market - citing the land border - when Switzerland has much longer borders with several EU countries yet remains outside the Single Market. Correct. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 14:16:39 GMT
Any country that's actually in the EU Single Market can negotiate and agree their own trade deals -- as long as they're not in the Customs Union. Look at Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland. They've been doing it for decades! You see, Our Little Dense One, what prevents an EU country from making their own trade deals is the Customs Union. Not the Single Market. If you are in the Single Market, then you drop your borders and barriers and you get to have the 4 FOM. If you are in the Customs Union, then no dice -- you can forget about making your own deals. That's why the UK avoided the bloody thing. And Switzerland is part of the Single Market. It's not up for debate. Sorry. It agrees to the four freedoms of the SM -- strictly speaking, not the EU, btw -- including your worst nightmare, FoM of People. You have obviously deluded yourself that you know more about Switzerland's arrangement with the EU than the Swiss themselves so here below, direct from Swiss Secretariat for Migration website -- read it and weep: ------- Free Movement of Persons Switzerland – EU/EFTA
On 21 June 1999, the European Union (EU) and Switzerland signed the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP). The AFMP lifts restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland. The right of free movement is complemented by the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, by the right to buy property, and by the coordination of social insurance systems. The same rules also apply to citizens of EFTA member states.
The AFMP came into force in 1 June 2002. Each time the EU is enlarged, the agreement is extended to include the new member states by means of an additional protocol.
------- You need tissue to dry your eyes? Looks like it. You're very confused because you don't understand the basics of the EU. I don't think you've ever actually studied the EU - you've just googled bits here and there so you don't see the big picture. The facts are as follows. No country that's in the Single Market can negotiate their own trade deals. So no EU member can negotiate their own trade deals. You will have seen this during the Brexit negotiations when all our negotiations were conducted with the EU (e.g. Michel Barnier). The only countries that are members of the Single Market are EU members and EEA members (Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway). And none of these countries can negotiate their own trade deals. EU members do it through the EU and EEA members do it through EFTA - and they're all subject to the ECJ. Some other countries (e.g. Switzerland) can trade with the Single Market via bilateral deals but they're not members of the Single Market and therefore CAN negotiate their own deals. Switzerland does not agree to the 4 pillars of the EU and its bilateral deals cover only goods. The "Freedom of Movement" agreement that Switzerland has with the EU is a custom deal negotiated between Switzerland and the EU - as your quote says. It's NOT the FoM agreement that's part of the SIngle market and it does not give the right for people from the EU to go and live in Switzerland. They need to get a residency permit and Switzerland can restrict these - as they did when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. It's all fairly simple when you understand the basic framework, gnome. You really should stop posting disinformation. ^^ I offer tissue, he wants waffle. More waffle! I suggest drying his eyes? He prefers flapping his gums. No amount of waffling from you can change the fact that in principle and in practice, Switzerland is part of the EU SM. You can not argue against it. You just can't. Well, you can try, but you will always fall flat on your face. It is not subject to interpretation: Switzerland is part of the EU Single Market. Sorry. What clearly doesn't get through that thick skull of yours is the fact that Sectoral Agreements or Bilateral Agreements do not preclude Switzerland's participation in the EU Single Market. They actually allow and facilitate Switzerland's participation in the Single Market. What are you talking about? Switzerland agrees to the 4 pillars of the SM (not the EU, btw.) They are contained in their Bilaterals. Bilaterals I covers FoM of People, for example.. Here, another light reading for you: www.efta-studies.org/sectoral-access-to-the-single-markeYes, EU citizens need to get residency permits to live in Switzerland. But that speaks to how Switzerland outsmarted Brussels, doesn't it? Maybe we should have tried getting that arrangement as well when we negotiated our opt-outs. And another thing that you clearly are overwhelmed by is the fact that getting access to the Single Market can be done through various ways. At the moment, three ways. One, be a member of the EU. Two, sign an agreement that specifies access to the Single Market like what the EEA have done. And three, do the Swiss Manoeuvre -- go for sectoral agreements. That is, if you can persuade the EU to agree to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 14:29:30 GMT
Yes. Where's the contradiction? But, No. It's not "got away from" but "got away with." It is no secret that the EU now find the Swiss arrangement to be a bit of a "meestek!" I'm not disputing anything about the Swiss arrangements, but I am saying that those arrangements allow them to be part of the Single Market. Code for: Switzerland is too autonomous and flexible, we need to reign that in. Code-speak not necessary. The EU does not hide the fact that they want to restructure Switzerland's very, very liberal and flexible sectoral agreements and have just one over aching agreement similar to the EEA deal. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 8, 2023 14:41:28 GMT
It's all fairly simple when you understand the basic framework, gnome. You really should stop posting disinformation. But that's just it, he doesn't. And he's in a delusional federalist cult. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 8, 2023 23:02:49 GMT
Code for: Switzerland is too autonomous and flexible, we need to reign that in. Code-speak not necessary. The EU does not hide the fact that they want to restructure Switzerland's very, very liberal and flexible sectoral agreements and have just one over aching agreement similar to the EEA deal. So, you agree that the nation-hood of Switzerland gets in the way of the EU's imperial ambitions. Thanks for confirming this. What we've gotten out of you over the last couple of weeks is that you believe in low-pay for British workers, and that the nation-state of a European democracy should be tied and bound up by the technocrats in Brussels. This tells us a lot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 5:41:47 GMT
Code-speak not necessary. The EU does not hide the fact that they want to restructure Switzerland's very, very liberal and flexible sectoral agreements and have just one over aching agreement similar to the EEA deal. Thanks for confirming this. What we've gotten out of you over the last couple of weeks is that you believe in low-pay for British workers, and that the nation-state of a European democracy should be tied and bound up by the technocrats in Brussels. This tells us a lot. No. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 9, 2023 5:48:08 GMT
The Europhiles believe in a form of fascism.
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