|
Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 11:19:34 GMT
what do you mean entitled to another vote? Weve been told we cant have another referendum? Join the club, Toejam. Darling. You post on this forum trying to mimic witty twitter one liners , but im afraid it doesnt really come across that well. Now back to whatever point you are trying to make.
Im not in your club. im not joining your club. A referendum is merely one democratic route. another is elections.
Get your man keir starmer elected , and as i said , he can take you back into the EU behind the brussells bike shed. You dont need another referendum . Where i disagree with starmer and labours stance is their poorly thought out duplicity in trying to con the public , instead of standing under a rejoin banner.
They might succeed in rejoining by duplicity , but it will cause years of further chaos in doing so . Of course labour and thier dim witted supporters never learn.
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jul 7, 2023 11:23:13 GMT
Darling. You post on this forum trying to mimic witty twitter one liners , but im afraid it doesnt really come across that well. Now back to whatever point you are trying to make.
Im not in your club. im not joining your club. A referendum is merely one democratic route. another is elections.
Get your man keir starmer elected , and as i said , he can take you back into the EU behind the brussells bike shed. You dont need another referendum . Where i disagree with starmer and labours stance is their poorly thought out duplicity in trying to con the public , instead of standing under a rejoin banner.
They might succeed in rejoining by duplicity , but it will cause years of further chaos in doing so . Of course labour and thier dim witted supporters never learn.
Left by duplicity, might as well rejoin that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 11:24:09 GMT
I was not speaking to how May won in 2017 but to how she successfully managed to implement a corrupted referendum with no legal standing by projecting her own virtue-signalling views about its moral imperative. A referendum is either legally binding or advisory. But she went full-scale Tony Blair with a Third Way: "It's not legally binding yet it's not really advisory either. But we are morally bound by the will of the people." Impressive gaslight manoeuvre, I must admit. Actually, No. Democracy never demanded the referendum be implemented. Democracy demanded that the referendum be rerun. Only that democracy-loving Brexiteers mangled the term and its true meaning. Like what you're doing now. Any neutral political scientist will tell you that 2016 should have been rerun because it was corrupted. They will also tell you that rerunning a corrupted referendum is demoratic. Once again: do not conflate and then confuse a democratic process with democracy itself. Elections are a democratic process. Democracy is a concept. A process must fall within the concept for it to be democratic. Re 2019: You're not gonna sit there and expect me to accept your personal conclusion, are you? You have to argue for it. My own argument is that 2019 was more about the un-electability of Jeremy Corbyn than anything else. Johnson was a leaver and so was Corbyn. If it was the new Brexit-convert Keith Starmer up against Johnson, I bet you the results would have been seriously different. No. If Starmers fails to get elected I won't be demanding that the results of the democratic process of election (note: not Democracy) be overturned. That's on the assumption that that election is not corrupted by any illegalities and other electoral fraud. Well its a good job that since the referendum we have had 2 elections with a plurality of voters supporting parties who promised to enact the result of the referendum. You admitted a few threads ago that Brexit was all about politics, i.e, party political play and party affiliation. To insinuate now that the results were an affirmation or validation of the leave vote does appear to be contrary, at best. In any case, you are giving us your own take. Mine is that they were a vote against Jeremy Corbyn rather than a vote for Leave. After all, May, Johnson and Corbyn were all Leave supporters.
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 11:25:13 GMT
It sounds like you are not disputing that the fact that the Brexit referendum was non-binding and illegally manipulated. That's great! no .Im reiterating what i have said many a time , that why is your brexit referendum not binding either legally or democratically , totally unfair becuase you lost , yet no one elses referndums or elections are?
No Thomas. Because it is British law that refs are non binding. If Scotland votes 90% to leave the UK, it depends on Parliament to decide if it will uphold the vote. Frankly that is why even though i support the populations vote whatever it is, it will never happen. Perhaps you should stop creating the idea that those who voted to remain are regretting it. They are far too busy struggling with the results of the lies and deception and illegal selling of data and the disastrous brexit government thay nearly crashed the entire UK economy...probably the only thing the Brexit govt achieved. Other than breaking its own rules and failing to do anything useful with a majority of 80. The brexit govt simply reflects the quality of those who refused to allow the people to vote on what kind of brexit they wanted. The bunch just decided. And as usual, wrongly. That is why there is so much hatred for the glorious brexiteers.
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 11:27:36 GMT
Another hilarious post. The Brexit government refuses to allow Scotland a referendum. 😆😆😆 so does labours potential next government. Not only that , labour didnt even want the original brexit referendum much to the ridicule of even the liberal democrats.
As i said , demcoracy seems to be something that is difficult for you and many in your country to understand.
There is no possibility to discuss the future. It is discussing your imagination. I dont waste time doing that. And i have two couuntries. Which one are you referring to? It might astonish you but i very much doubt that the next election has anything to do with brexit. People are more concerned about being made homeless, thanks to the last 13 years.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 11:29:45 GMT
Actually, No. Democracy never demanded the referendum be implemented. I , and millions of others , clearly disagreed. We are now in the realms of outight fantasy , and you anglo remainers are coming across as entitled children who are not used to mummy saying no . Disagreed, meaning what exactly? Looks like you and your fellow Brexit defenders were and still are so, but so, scared of another referendum that will most likely rectify that corrupted one held in June 2016.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 7, 2023 11:29:53 GMT
It is due to weak demand and investment by the UK.Hnome has ex0lained it. The EU continues to grow. The UK needs the EU far more than the UK needs the EU. Just the rate of growth says so.You were told but refused to listen.you voted fori it. Now live with it and stop complaining. What does it say to you? - to me it says we are pretty average. Exactly. No need to pay £10+bn a year to, when we can just have an FTA and enjoy far more trade with the rest of the world as a bonus.
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 11:33:52 GMT
I am beginning to thing iggy means more than ignore. We did this conversation. MOST OF THAT GRAPH IS FROM WHEN THAT UK WAS STILL TRADING AS A FULL EU MEMBER.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 7, 2023 11:41:46 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 11:44:54 GMT
It sounds like you are not disputing that the fact that the Brexit referendum was non-binding and illegally manipulated. That's great! no .Im reiterating what i have said many a time , that why is your brexit referendum not binding either legally or democratically , totally unfair becuase you lost , yet no one elses referndums or elections are?
The Brexit referendum was, is and will always be not legally binding. No court can rule on it. It's just a fact. The dang referendum ain't binding. The Scottish referendum, on the other hand, is legally binding. The Supreme Court can rule on it. It is a fact. Instead of losing your head denying facts why don't you explore the reasons why the Brexit referendum isn't binding yet the Scottish referendum is binding. But don't start with "because remain voters lost" -- that's just so juvie.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 7, 2023 17:05:27 GMT
Well its a good job that since the referendum we have had 2 elections with a plurality of voters supporting parties who promised to enact the result of the referendum. You admitted a few threads ago that Brexit was all about politics, i.e, party political play and party affiliation. To insinuate now that the results were an affirmation or validation of the leave vote does appear to be contrary, at best. In any case, you are giving us your own take. Mine is that they were a vote against Jeremy Corbyn rather than a vote for Leave. After all, May, Johnson and Corbyn were all Leave supporters. May? - really? ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 17:42:36 GMT
You admitted a few threads ago that Brexit was all about politics, i.e, party political play and party affiliation. To insinuate now that the results were an affirmation or validation of the leave vote does appear to be contrary, at best. In any case, you are giving us your own take. Mine is that they were a vote against Jeremy Corbyn rather than a vote for Leave. After all, May, Johnson and Corbyn were all Leave supporters. May? - really? ... May -- really. The reluctant Leaver but a leaver just the same. Shamed, guilt-tripped, party loyalty questioned, dragged kicking and screaming until she played party politics and supporter "Leave" for the sake of the Tory party. As you yourself admit, it's all politics. Innit?
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 7, 2023 17:45:23 GMT
Corbyn caved to Starmer and other remoaning wasters in the Labour party and campaigned for a second in / out referendum. He spent all of 2019 pandering to bad losers, frustrating our democratic exit from the EU and paved the way for Boris Johnson all because he misread the polls and listend to Starmer too much.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 8, 2023 6:54:36 GMT
May? - really? ... May -- really. The reluctant Leaver but a leaver just the same. Shamed, guilt-tripped, party loyalty questioned, dragged kicking and screaming until she played party politics and supporter "Leave" for the sake of the Tory party. As you yourself admit, it's all politics. Innit? Anyone who puts Olly Robbins in charge of negotiating an exit deal obviously has no interest in actually leaving..
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jul 8, 2023 7:50:01 GMT
Olly Robbins is about as pro independence from the EU as Guy Verhofstadt or Michael Heseltine. I.e. not in favour at all. Theresa May's decision to put him in charge of negotiations was mad.
|
|