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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 6:48:37 GMT
It wasnt an undemocratic referendum , and overturning it isnt democracy , and as everyone outside of cloud cuckoo land saw in 2019 , the public clearly didnt support overturning it. end of story.
The public was never given a chance. Once again they were lied to. More importantly, if they were given a chznce today, the UK would be reapplying for membership. Except the chances of that being approved by the EU are very slim. what do you mean the public were never given a chance? Are you implying people werent allowed to vote ?
i dont disagree. ...but if lying was a reason to overturn democratic results , then every election and referendum through political history would have to be revisited. We were lied to in 2014 , that didnt seem to matter either.
well according to the polls , you will get your chance when keir starmer and labour win the next election. Im not sure you will be allowed to vote on it , thats not keir starmers way , but im ure he will take the uk back in behind the brussells bike sheds.
The question on everyones lips though oracle , are you once again going to refuse to recognise the vote if keir and labour dont win ? You have damaged uk democracy oracle , and we cant be sure now of your participation within the rules.
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 6:49:53 GMT
again no comparison. The result of the 2014 indy ref was immediately implemented. The winners got the prize. Meanwhile in the uk , the result of the 2016 brexit ref was not only delayed , but anti democratic remianers in parliament , cheered on by many remainers outside of parliament , attempted to anti demcoratically overturn the result as we know , leading to public anger and johnsons 2019 landslide to get brexit done.
In democracy , you hold a vote , then the result is implemented , and dissenting voices then have the chance to argue about it again. We cant keep holding votes if anglo remainers are going to throw their toys out of the pram everytime they lose and try and overturn democracy can we?
I support your argument against brexit , just not your tantrums against democracy.
Thomas. The results of a referendum are NON BINDING. Those who foresaw all the current problemschave the DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to express opposition to the illegally manipulated result. dearie me. The anti democratic excuses shine through yet again. why are referendums you dont like like brexit non binding and illegally manipulated , but others like the scot indy ref not? |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 6:50:09 GMT
Oh for gods sake. The EU nations trade across the globe. They hardly notice any change in its exportds to the UK. But two pages back you were boasting that the UK isnt losing any trade vis z vis the EU. Iggy even tried to suggest your trade has gone up.
Make up your mind. At least be consistent. I"m out. You just say things to make an argument. Our Exports to the EU have risen - our Imports from the EU have fallen. The UK is not responsible for the amount of goods that the EU export - if they are exporting less to the UK then its the businesses in the EU that need to up their game. Iggy has repeatedly boasted that uk exports to the EU have risen. Course we all know he doesnt live in reality. He lives in his own matrix. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 6:54:55 GMT
The public was never given a chance. Once again they were lied to. More importantly, if they were given a chznce today, the UK would be reapplying for membership. Except the chances of that being approved by the EU are very slim. what do you mean the public were never given a chance? Are you implying people werent allowed to vote ?
i dont disagree. ...but if lying was a reason to overturn democratic results , then every election and referendum through political history would have to be revisited. We were lied to in 2014 , that didnt seem to matter either.
well according to the polls , you will get your chance when keir starmer and labour win the next election. Im not sure you will be allowed to vote on it , thats not keir starmers way , but im ure he will take the uk back in behind the brussells bike sheds.
The question on everyones lips though oracle , are you once again going to refuse to recognise the vote if keir and labour dont win ? You have damaged uk democracy oracle , and we cant be sure now of your participation within the rules.
There was a large and very vocal call for a second ref and the kind of Brexit was never put to a vote. The small group of Brexit crazies pressured for leaving the SM and CU too. There were other less damaging choices. But the people were never asked. As for future elections i cant vote. So keep your suspicions and assumptions to yourself. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 7, 2023 6:54:57 GMT
What are you talking about? These are facts: 'don’t elect the president by universal suffrage and MEPs can’t initiate legislation and the ECJ, the court, isn’t accountable to Parliament.' Which President? There are three. If you mean of the commission s/he, the PM of the UK isnt voted in by direct vote of the people either. AND MEP'S CAN PROPOSE LEGISLATION. SO CAN THE POPULATION BY PETITION. YOU HAVE HAD THIS EXPLAINED TIME AFTER TIME. WHY DO YOU KEEP REPEATING THE LIE? This error has been explained to you more than once. MEP's cannot initiate Legislation - all they can do is politely ask the Commission to initiate Legislation. No lies - just your misunderstanding of the situation. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 6:57:19 GMT
Thomas. The results of a referendum are NON BINDING. Those who foresaw all the current problemschave the DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to express opposition to the illegally manipulated result. dearie me. The anti democratic excuses shine through yet again. why are referendums you dont like like brexit non binding and illegally manipulated , but others like the scot indy ref not? The UK law says refs are non binding. What the govt does with the result is optional. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 6:57:40 GMT
what do you mean the public were never given a chance? Are you implying people werent allowed to vote ?
i dont disagree. ...but if lying was a reason to overturn democratic results , then every election and referendum through political history would have to be revisited. We were lied to in 2014 , that didnt seem to matter either.
well according to the polls , you will get your chance when keir starmer and labour win the next election. Im not sure you will be allowed to vote on it , thats not keir starmers way , but im ure he will take the uk back in behind the brussells bike sheds.
The question on everyones lips though oracle , are you once again going to refuse to recognise the vote if keir and labour dont win ? You have damaged uk democracy oracle , and we cant be sure now of your participation within the rules.
There was a large and very vocal call for a second ref and the kind of Brexit was never put to a vote. The small group of Brexit crazies pressured for leaving the SM and CU too. There were other less damaging choices. But the people were never asked. As for future elections i cant vote. So keep your suspicions and assumptions to yourself. you do your vocal calling on democracy at the ballot box oracle , and that large and vocal call for another referendum on brexit up to now appeared to be another remainer damp squib everytime. What was it , five votes including a referendum this large and vocal moniroty lost between 2015 and 2019?
It was a generalisation , not personal remark.
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 6:58:21 GMT
dearie me. The anti democratic excuses shine through yet again. why are referendums you dont like like brexit non binding and illegally manipulated , but others like the scot indy ref not? The UK law says refs are non binding. What the govt does with the result is optional. The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . |
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 6:59:17 GMT
The UK law says refs are non binding. What the govt does with the result is optional. The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . By the way , there is no such thing as uk law. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 7:03:22 GMT
Which President? There are three. If you mean of the commission s/he, the PM of the UK isnt voted in by direct vote of the people either. AND MEP'S CAN PROPOSE LEGISLATION. SO CAN THE POPULATION BY PETITION. YOU HAVE HAD THIS EXPLAINED TIME AFTER TIME. WHY DO YOU KEEP REPEATING THE LIE? This error has been explained to you more than once. MEP's cannot initiate Legislation - all they can do is politely ask the Commission to initiate Legislation. No lies - just your misunderstanding of the situation. Thz commission cannot initiate legislation either. They can propose it. It takes 3 democratic votes to pass it. MEPs' request for consideration is comparable to the UK opposition not ever proposing legislation. At least the MEPs' request is considered. And by law the commission musy consider public petitions. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 7:04:38 GMT
The UK law says refs are non binding. What the govt does with the result is optional. The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . Doesnt matter. Cameron had no legal right to speak against the law. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 7, 2023 7:06:00 GMT
The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . By the way , there is no such thing as uk law. There is no such thing as UK law ?? In the UK, referendums are not legally binding on Parliament. Even if a majority of people who vote in a referendum support a particular policy, Parliament will not be legally required to implement that policy. This is because Parliament is considered to be 'sovereign'.Jul 25, 2022 constitutionallawmatters.org › ... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 7, 2023 7:19:07 GMT
The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . Doesnt matter. Cameron had no legal right to speak against the law. He didnt speak against the Law - he made a promise to the electorate about what he would do after they voted. Politicians do that every day. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 7:29:36 GMT
The sitting government and its leader promised to implement the result . Doesnt matter. Cameron had no legal right to speak against the law. which law precluded the referendum result in your warped imagination from being implemented? |
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Post by thomas on Jul 7, 2023 7:34:04 GMT
There is no such thing as UK law ?? In the UK, referendums are not legally binding on Parliament. Even if a majority of people who vote in a referendum support a particular policy, Parliament will not be legally required to implement that policy. This is because Parliament is considered to be 'sovereign'.Jul 25, 2022 constitutionallawmatters.org › ... thats correct. There is no such thing as uk law. There is scottish law. English law .northern irish law.
You are confusing uk lawmakers , passing laws into the different legal systems , with a uniform uk wide law which doesnt exist.
nonsense. You are arguing semantics. Cameron stood on a brexit referendum mandate , got elected on it in 2015 , repeatedly said he would hold and then implement the result , and then when he lost ran away. What happened between 2016 and 2019 was the very antithesis of democracy , and those like you arguing for overturning democratic results forgot you had to face the public once again , and you did with predictable results.
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