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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 18, 2023 11:08:58 GMT
Actually too low. Cheap money encourages waste and caused the housing market to work like a Ponzi scheme. I was referring to the claim that all Carney did during his tenure was to print money like there's no tomorrow. "Printing money like there's no tomorrow" would cause very high inflation. Very high inflation is combatted with high interest. In Carney's time, there was low interest AND low inflation. A little strange. If you're talking about the financial crisis of 2007/08/09; IMO, rather than interest rates, it was the overly relaxed regulations that caused it. The money printing happened in 2019. It takes over a year for it to work through the system and for the negative effects to be noticed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2023 12:23:40 GMT
I was referring to the claim that all Carney did during his tenure was to print money like there's no tomorrow. "Printing money like there's no tomorrow" would cause very high inflation. Very high inflation is combatted with high interest. In Carney's time, there was low interest AND low inflation. A little strange. If you're talking about the financial crisis of 2007/08/09; IMO, rather than interest rates, it was the overly relaxed regulations that caused it. The money printing happened in 2019. It takes over a year for it to work through the system and for the negative effects to be noticed. When do you think the inflationary effect of this massive money printing exercise began to filter through the system?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 18, 2023 12:39:57 GMT
The money printing happened in 2019. It takes over a year for it to work through the system and for the negative effects to be noticed. When do you think the inflationary effect of this massive money printing exercise began to filter through the system? Well like I say, from data analysis we are talking about a year lag before any signs appear, meaning that would land us in the middle of covid where demand was very weak hence keeping inflation under control. Once the economy had righted itself after unlocking the consumers had a lot of this printed money in their bank accounts, especially thanks to furlough. Monitory policy should have been reversed at that point to counter inflation before we started a wage-price spiral and strikes which reduced supply and made inflation worse. The BoE fucked up.
vis-a-vis China
In China they did not do furlough. They left it to the market to deal with it and the market was the best solution. Where business could not afford the rent due to lockdown the problem was solved on a per case basis between landlord and tenants, often resulting in a deal which was good for the both of them. Where there were shortages the price rocketed, but without price controls the high price encouraged suppliers to source additional supply. Where a person was out of work, they switched to doing a different job, and so when the country opened up it did not have bad inflation, like about 2% as I recall.
The trouble with our government including the BoE and all the institutions that advise it, is they are control freaks. Never fight the market as the market is a representation of what people want, and if they can't get what they want they will not be very productive. Why work if work manifests only what you don't want!
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Post by Vinny on Jun 18, 2023 13:10:10 GMT
If it was due to Brexit, why did it take until 2023 and why did inflation hit everywhere else in the world at the same time? The same people who gave Gordon Brown the benefit of the doubt over the banking crash being worldwide will not do the same for this government over inflation. Because they're biased partisan Europhiles, and they will never accept or respect democracy. They demand their way or else they'll scream and scream and scream until they're sick. They would be quite happy with dictatorship so long as it granted them free movement and an EU passport.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 19, 2023 6:35:21 GMT
I don't think even Mark Carney seriously believes that Brexit has anything to do with the high inflation and high interest rates - which are obviously also afflicting the EU. I think it's fairly obvious that George Osborne (remainer-in-chief) has been on the phone to him and called in a few favours - he's plainly said to Carney that it would be helpful if he blamed Brexit, because some thickos might regard him as impartial.
The facts are obvious. The credit crunch of 2007/8 (caused by Labour letting borrowing rip) hit the UK and Europe badly, but we had different a solution to the problem than the EU had. The BoE printed vast amounts of money (QE) and protected asset prices and reflated the markets. I think they printed in all about £800 billion. The ECB didn't do this - it just refinanced their ailing banks. The net result was that the UK softened the blow for the people and unemployment didn't rise very much at all and there wasn't a great increase in bankruptcies. But it was obvious that there would be a "payback" later in the form of inflation and a decline in the value of Sterling.
But because the ECB didn't issue QE they had a very rocky time in the Eurozone and countries like Greece and Italy were hit very hard and have still not recovered. They belatedly issued QE some years later but on a much smaller scale that the UK.
The thing is that inflation is a highly unpredictable thing. Many economists (Liam Halligan in particular) said that our reliance on printing money will inevitably cause big inflation, but unaccountably it just didn't really happen. But there's an old saying that money printing and inflation are a bit like trying to get ketchup out of the bottle. You keep bashing on the bottle and nothing happens - until suddenly you get most of the bottle deposited on your chips.
And that's what happened with our QE. We got away with low inflation and low interest rates for years after the credit crunch but when Sunak went berserk with QE for furlough and loans to criminals that was the final fateful bash on the ketchup bottle. The only surprise is that it hasn't been worse than it actually is. It's hardly more then the EUrozone's inflation.
It's absolutely SFA to do with Brexit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 12:36:37 GMT
From poster Baron Von L: "The money printing happened in 2019. It takes over a year for it to work through the system and for the negative effects to be noticed."
From poster Steppenwolf: "The credit crunch of 2007/8 (caused by Labour letting borrowing rip) hit the UK and Europe badly, but we had different a solution to the problem than the EU had. The BoE printed vast amounts of money (QE) and protected asset prices and reflated the markets. I think they printed in all about £800 billion." ---------------------------------------------- (a) Did the money printing happen in 2019 OR 2008? Or, 2019 AND 2008?
(b) The financial crisis of 2007-08 was caused by banking deregulation and lax lending standards or to take a political and an accusing tone, it was caused by Labour letting borrowing rip. But it smacks of hypocrisy, if not willful ignorance, coming from Brexit defenders in that Brexit is all about deregulation and lax lending standards. Or maybe it all boils down to who makes the rules and who takes them.
Edit:
From poster Steppenwolf: Sunak went berserk with QE for furlough and loans to criminals
The furlough scheme was financed from taxes and government income and additionally, by loans, for the most part?
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 19, 2023 13:05:11 GMT
Well, now it's being reported there is a mortgage crisis just around the corner, after years of cheap money afforded due to low interest rates. This could have been avoidable argue economists as more than a decade of super-low
interest rates were going to come to a rough, unaffordable end.
Though, no doubt Gnome and co will blame this possible catastrophe on Brexit. (< You heard it here first)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 13:46:17 GMT
Well, now it's being reported there is a mortgage crisis just around the corner, after years of cheap money afforded due to low interest rates. This could have been avoidable argue economists as more than a decade of super-low interest rates were going to come to a rough, unaffordable end. Though, no doubt Gnome and co will blame this possible catastrophe on Brexit. (< You heard it here first) If it were to be proven or if there would be enough evidence and general acceptance and acknowledgement by reliable, well respected, reputed, reputable economists and think-tanks that this projected mortgage crisis would have been caused by Brexit, then obviously, Gnome and Co. would -- will! -- blame the catastrophe on Brexit. That's a given.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 19, 2023 13:48:12 GMT
I don't think even Mark Carney seriously believes that Brexit has anything to do with the high inflation and high interest rates - which are obviously also afflicting the EU. I think it's fairly obvious that George Osborne (remainer-in-chief) has been on the phone to him and called in a few favours - he's plainly said to Carney that it would be helpful if he blamed Brexit, because some thickos might regard him as impartial. The facts are obvious. The credit crunch of 2007/8 (caused by Labour letting borrowing rip) hit the UK and Europe badly, but we had different a solution to the problem than the EU had. The BoE printed vast amounts of money (QE) and protected asset prices and reflated the markets. I think they printed in all about £800 billion. The ECB didn't do this - it just refinanced their ailing banks. The net result was that the UK softened the blow for the people and unemployment didn't rise very much at all and there wasn't a great increase in bankruptcies. But it was obvious that there would be a "payback" later in the form of inflation and a decline in the value of Sterling. But because the ECB didn't issue QE they had a very rocky time in the Eurozone and countries like Greece and Italy were hit very hard and have still not recovered. They belatedly issued QE some years later but on a much smaller scale that the UK. The thing is that inflation is a highly unpredictable thing. Many economists (Liam Halligan in particular) said that our reliance on printing money will inevitably cause big inflation, but unaccountably it just didn't really happen. But there's an old saying that money printing and inflation are a bit like trying to get ketchup out of the bottle. You keep bashing on the bottle and nothing happens - until suddenly you get most of the bottle deposited on your chips. And that's what happened with our QE. We got away with low inflation and low interest rates for years after the credit crunch but when Sunak went berserk with QE for furlough and loans to criminals that was the final fateful bash on the ketchup bottle. The only surprise is that it hasn't been worse than it actually is. It's hardly more then the EUrozone's inflation. It's absolutely SFA to do with Brexit. Good post.
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 19, 2023 14:15:13 GMT
Well, now it's being reported there is a mortgage crisis just around the corner, after years of cheap money afforded due to low interest rates. This could have been avoidable argue economists as more than a decade of super-low interest rates were going to come to a rough, unaffordable end. Though, no doubt Gnome and co will blame this possible catastrophe on Brexit. (< You heard it here first) If it were to be proven or if there would be enough evidence and general acceptance and acknowledgement by reliable, well respected, reputed, reputable economists and think-tanks that this projected mortgage crisis would have been caused by Brexit, then obviously, Gnome and Co. would -- will! -- blame the catastrophe on Brexit. That's a given. Yeah, because you wouldn't be able to conclude it by yourself. Lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 14:43:48 GMT
If it were to be proven or if there would be enough evidence and general acceptance and acknowledgement by reliable, well respected, reputed, reputable economists and think-tanks that this projected mortgage crisis would have been caused by Brexit, then obviously, Gnome and Co. would -- will! -- blame the catastrophe on Brexit. That's a given. Yeah, because you wouldn't be able to conclude it by yourself. Lol It's amusing that you say that now since you've always been trying unsuccessfully to disprove my own conclusions which, btw, I have always drawn from all evidence, the veracity of evidence, the multiplicity of evidence plus the conclusion of well respected, reputed, reputable and reliable sources.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 19, 2023 17:14:39 GMT
Carney trying to shift the blame? - say it ain't so..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 13:15:46 GMT
Carney telling it like it is, in my view. Edit: And another one saying a similar thing: www.independent.co.uk/voices/mortgages-inflation-economy-brexit-housing-market-b2361511.html‘The monster is out of its cage’: how Brexit set inflation loose to feed on Britain
To use a technical economic term, the latest UK inflation number is a stinker. So, far from rapidly tumbling towards the government’s target of 5 to 6 per cent by the end of the year – let alone the Bank of England’s 2 per cent medium term aim – inflation is not just sticky, but in fact stuck: at 8.7 per cent a year. We can blame the Bank of England, post-pandemic disruptions, Putin’s war in Ukraine, or Rishi Sunak. All have played their part in creating the predicament in which we find ourselves. Unfashionable as it may be to say, though, Brexit is also a malign factor, and Britain’s unique misfortune.
For we now see clearly that inflation is higher in the UK than in other comparable economies, and has been for some time. Catherine Mann, a distinguished economist who sits on the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee as an independent, calculates that Brexit has meant prices are around 4 per cent higher than they would otherwise be thanks to the cumulative effects of the 2016 EU referendum decision, when set against comparable economies, not least because “no other country chose to unilaterally impose trade barriers on its closest trading partners.” Disrupting supply chains in and out of the EU added bureaucracy, delays and costs, which stands to reason. Brexit also affected the easy dynamic flow of needed skills and types of workers under the old freedom of movement regime, substituting a clunky, arbitrary, and politicised points-based system for the agile free market system. More people are retiring early, and more are suffering long-term illness because of the lingering effects Covid. The impact of all that is to create a labour shortage, push wages up (and therefore business costs), and these have been passed on. In some forms they’ve also squeezed profits (for investment). The economy cannot grow without people to work in it. The attempt to maintain living standards and wages in the face of a reduction in the capacity of the economy to supply goods and services (for lack of workers) made inflation inevitable. Using interest rates and higher taxes to hammer it down aren’t the best weapons in such circumstances; but, barring a much higher level of immigration, they are the only tools the authorities have at their disposal. Mann asked back in February: “Is there a turning point already visible in the data? For the US and the Euro area, yes; for the UK, maybe stabilisation.” She was being optimistic. The most depressing of the inflation readings is what they call “core inflation”. This strips out the more volatile elements, including food and energy prices, which should suggest it will be more encouraging than the headline rate; but, right now, it is actually going in the wrong direction. It’s really an indicator of how much of our inflation problem is “home grown”, which mostly boils down to wages costs and that labour shortage, worsened by Brexit. At 7.1 per cent it is unsustainably high, and is accelerating. Inflationary expectations are being built into wage bargaining – as we see with the current wave of strikes – and, sad to say, even at this point shops and suppliers are finding it too easy to pass cost increases through to prices. The dreaded wage-price spiral, which we thought we had expunged from the economy in the early 1990s, is back. To make matters worse, Sunak has unnecessarily added a second, informal political inflation target, which may have the impact of subconsciously making the Bank panic and ramp rates up performatively – risking a housing crash and wider slump.
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