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Post by Pacifico on Jun 19, 2023 21:26:54 GMT
Anyonw who is honest, knows what they are talking about and has two brain cells to rub together. Well obviously that rules you out but who exactly are we talking about? |
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 20, 2023 7:09:12 GMT
Anyonw who is honest, knows what they are talking about and has two brain cells to rub together. Well obviously that rules you out but who exactly are we talking about? I am not prepared to spend anymore time discussing this with someone so dishonest that, when cornered, hides behind trees and pretends to be on another planet. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 13:05:52 GMT
IMO, it is not a test of how democratic the EU is -- the EU's democratic legitimacy has long been established..By who? By whom? The better question would be by what, it seems. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 20, 2023 17:00:02 GMT
By whom? The better question would be by what, it seems. There are lots of questions - very few answers though..  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 17:50:51 GMT
By whom? The better question would be by what, it seems. There are lots of questions - very few answers though.. You have to ask the right questions, haven't you? Otherwise you'd be guilty of leading (or misleading) people to the wrong answer. IMO. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 20, 2023 21:47:07 GMT
There are lots of questions - very few answers though.. You have to ask the right questions, haven't you? Otherwise you'd be guilty of leading (or misleading) people to the wrong answer. IMO. Seems the wrong questions are the ones you dont have an answer too and we have to rely on your assurances... Faith belongs in a Church not on the pages of a political forum.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 7:05:55 GMT
You have to ask the right questions, haven't you? Otherwise you'd be guilty of leading (or misleading) people to the wrong answer. IMO. Seems the wrong questions are the ones you dont have an answer too and we have to rely on your assurances... Faith belongs in a Church not on the pages of a political forum.. Why ask who established the EU's democratic legitimacy when it's clear that there is no organisation, no agency, no group of political scientists, no individual generally regarded and accepted as the official authoritative arbiter of democratic legitimacy? If there is one, then point me to where I can find this political scientist or organisation. Come on, your question "by who" (sic) is leading -- it leads you to making a judgement on the person responding to that question away from determining the accuracy of the claim. It's a pivot. And you you know it's a pivot. I've seen you do it countless times. I've just seen you do it a few comments back.  I wasn't giving my assurances but stating a generally accepted fact when I said that the democratic legitimacy of the EU had already been established. But if you insist on getting an answer to your "by who" question; then fine, you can start with the 27 democratic countries that make up the European Union. Ask them, they'll tell you the EU is democratic. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 21, 2023 7:15:47 GMT
Seems the wrong questions are the ones you dont have an answer too and we have to rely on your assurances... Faith belongs in a Church not on the pages of a political forum.. Why ask who established the EU's democratic legitimacy when it's clear that there is no organisation, no agency, no group of political scientists, no individual generally regarded and accepted as the official authoritative arbiter of democratic legitimacy? If there is one, then point me to where I can find this political scientist or organisation. Come on, your question "by who" (sic) is leading -- it leads you to making a judgement on the person responding to that question away from determining the accuracy of the claim. It's a pivot. And you you know it's a pivot. I've seen you do it countless times. I've just seen you do it a few comments back. I wasn't giving my assurances but stating a generally accepted fact when I said that the democratic legitimacy of the EU had already been established. But if you insist on getting an answer to your "by who" question; then fine, you can start with the 27 democratic countries that make up the European Union. Ask them, they'll tell you the EU is democratic. So when you say that the 'EU's democratic legitimacy has long been established' all you mean is that it has long been established to your satisfaction. As to it being a generally accepted fact by all 27 member states I think you will find that Poland and Hungary will differ with your assertion. .. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 21, 2023 7:42:35 GMT
Only when they get something out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 10:49:22 GMT
Why ask who established the EU's democratic legitimacy when it's clear that there is no organisation, no agency, no group of political scientists, no individual generally regarded and accepted as the official authoritative arbiter of democratic legitimacy? If there is one, then point me to where I can find this political scientist or organisation. Come on, your question "by who" (sic) is leading -- it leads you to making a judgement on the person responding to that question away from determining the accuracy of the claim. It's a pivot. And you you know it's a pivot. I've seen you do it countless times. I've just seen you do it a few comments back. I wasn't giving my assurances but stating a generally accepted fact when I said that the democratic legitimacy of the EU had already been established. But if you insist on getting an answer to your "by who" question; then fine, you can start with the 27 democratic countries that make up the European Union. Ask them, they'll tell you the EU is democratic. So when you say that the 'EU's democratic legitimacy has long been established' all you mean is that it has long been established to your satisfaction. As to it being a generally accepted fact by all 27 member states I think you will find that Poland and Hungary will differ with your assertion. .. No. When I say that the 'EU's democratic legitimacy has long been established', I mean it is a generally accepted fact that the EU is democratic and its democratic legitimacy has long been established. Poland and Hungary disagree with and try to disregard EU directives. But they do not question the democratic legitimacy of the EU. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 21, 2023 11:23:41 GMT
The process by which these countries elects their leaders is democratic. Otherwise they would not be in the EU.
As for the EU itself, and by the UK's example, 51% of any decision is a democratic decision.
Remembering of course that any proposed legislation is voted on by three democratically elected bodies.
And there are no whips in the EU.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 23, 2023 7:25:26 GMT
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 23, 2023 8:29:15 GMT
And there are no whips in the EU. You have never been to Amsterdam then ?  |
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