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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2023 10:30:38 GMT
gnome I'm not sure such a clear distinction can be made, in that destructive effects on a society (whether caused by migrants or anyone else) are viewed as an existential concern by a significant portion of the citizens within that society. Distruction does tend to raise alarm, and its causes identified and solutions sought. There's no reticence, as the Daily Telegraph spelled out yesterday, in openly stating that Venice is no longer Venice due to an influx of White middle class tourists. Equally, we shouldn't be squeamish about giving a realistic explanation if Paris has undergone significant change for the worst.  Yes. The correlation, alone, between the terms destruction and existential is obvious. I put it to the relevant poster that it was his argument. He seems to have chosen to ignore it. However, the Venice comparison is not really valid, IMO. Venice is not Venice anymore, to me, is more about inconvenience generated by the influx of such tourists rather than an existential threat to the Venetian society. Venice society, after all, has always been about tourism for the most part. |
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Post by piglet on Jun 15, 2023 11:12:38 GMT
Ive only just caught up with this, you are wrong steppen. The growth of the EU and Nato has been by democratic means and not by dictatorship which you suggest. The people of whatever country has a right to join the EU and nato if they want to, like the Ukraine, Finland etc.
To suggest they cannot because we might upset the russian bear is preposterous. Even Putin early in his mad reign said why not to joining up.
It is not poisonous to be democratic.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 15, 2023 21:28:38 GMT
If the Ukrainians want to join the EU, however daft that would be, that's for Ukraine, not us. And certainly not Putin.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 16, 2023 12:31:55 GMT
There are many reasons for my support of Brexit. It was always primarily about uncontrolled immigration and lack of sovereignty. But the basic flaws in the Eurozone's structure is another reason to get out - briefly it won't work without fiscal union but the member nations will never agree to it. As for the EU's "humanitarian" response to the refugee/migrant crises, fuck right off. The EU are paying billions for Turkey to keep millions of these people in detention camps - and Germany are also considering deporting undesirables to Rwanda (or elsewhere). There's nothing humanitarian about the EU. The UK was never in the Eurozone. We opted out, didn't we? On what ground does the EU (or the UK, US, et al., for that matter) grant asylum, or at least consider application, to those at their borders? So, they are paying Turkey billions and billions of Euros for migrant management. Do you have a better solution??? You're a total idiot, gnome. You understand nothing and there's almost no point in replying to you. You're a typical remoaner. You said "So, the EU destroyed "the Europe we knew" through its humanitarian response to the refugee/migrant crises that had been created by civil wars in countries that were not part of the EU". The EU has had NO HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE of this kind. If you had any understanding whatsoever of what's going on you'd know that the EU is paying Turkey to keep refugees in detention centres in Turkey and using the Schengen system to funnel illegal migrants from Greece and Italy to the UK. The EU countries grant very few immigrants asylum status. So fuck off until you know the facts. - N |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 12:48:49 GMT
The UK was never in the Eurozone. We opted out, didn't we? On what ground does the EU (or the UK, US, et al., for that matter) grant asylum, or at least consider application, to those at their borders? So, they are paying Turkey billions and billions of Euros for migrant management. Do you have a better solution??? You're a total idiot, gnome. You understand nothing and there's almost no point in replying to you. You're a typical remoaner. You said "So, the EU destroyed "the Europe we knew" through its humanitarian response to the refugee/migrant crises that had been created by civil wars in countries that were not part of the EU". The EU has had NO HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE of this kind. If you had any understanding whatsoever of what's going on you'd know that the EU is paying Turkey to keep refugees in detention centres in Turkey and using the Schengen system to funnel illegal migrants from Greece and Italy to the UK. The EU countries grant very few immigrants asylum status. So fuck off until you know the facts. - N I do understand that opening your borders to hundreds of people without the necessary documents is a humanitarian response. Operating on an "entry now, documents later" basis can only be humanitarian. To pay Turkey to help manage refugee crises is not "un-humanitarian", for lack of a better word. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 16, 2023 13:28:56 GMT
I do understand that opening your borders to hundreds of people without the necessary documents is a humanitarian response. No it's not - it's insane. That's why Europe is being overrun by terrorists. Your problem gnome is that you don't understand anything about what's going on in the world. You've probably never lived in any of the countries that these fucking vermin are coming from. You don't understand why these countries are being destroyed by "civil war". It's because these countries are full of religious zealots who hate each other and spend most of their time fighting each other because of pointless sectarian views. And when they come over here they just start directing their violence at us. Have you read about the many attacks on the UK? And have you read that it's mainly by muslims. So fuck off excusing their behaviour and welcoming them into this country. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 15:02:48 GMT
I do understand that opening your borders to hundreds of people without the necessary documents is a humanitarian response. No it's not - it's insane. That's why Europe is being overrun by terrorists. Your problem gnome is that you don't understand anything about what's going on in the world. You've probably never lived in any of the countries that these fucking vermin are coming from. You don't understand why these countries are being destroyed by "civil war". It's because these countries are full of religious zealots who hate each other and spend most of their time fighting each other because of pointless sectarian views. And when they come over here they just start directing their violence at us. Have you read about the many attacks on the UK? And have you read that it's mainly by muslims. So fuck off excusing their behaviour and welcoming them into this country. So, your idea of a humanitarian response is leaving them at the borders at the height of winter with no shoes on or letting them drown in the Med? Actually, that is rhetorical -- you don't need to answer it. Clearly, you don't have any problems defining what humanitarian response is -- you know what it is and you know what it entails. Your problem is all about a government's choice to adopt a humanitarian response to refugee crises rather than your personal choice to endorse the farther-than-far-right Trumpian view on refugee issues. Everyone has a problem with religious zealots. Not just you. But it is only you, it seems, who will surrender himself to bigotry and pernicious far-right wing nationalism. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 16, 2023 15:32:01 GMT
Lefties love the idea of other people paying to make them feel morally superior .
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 16, 2023 16:34:30 GMT
No it's not - it's insane. That's why Europe is being overrun by terrorists. Your problem gnome is that you don't understand anything about what's going on in the world. You've probably never lived in any of the countries that these fucking vermin are coming from. You don't understand why these countries are being destroyed by "civil war". It's because these countries are full of religious zealots who hate each other and spend most of their time fighting each other because of pointless sectarian views. And when they come over here they just start directing their violence at us. Have you read about the many attacks on the UK? And have you read that it's mainly by muslims. So fuck off excusing their behaviour and welcoming them into this country. So, your idea of a humanitarian response blah blah Just fuck off gnome. This is pointless deflection. You said that the EU's response is humanitarian but it's plainly less humanitarian than the UK's response. That's why these scum are all risking their lives to come here. I've lived in many European countries (over about 20 years) and most of them do not like foreigners - especiaily the Black ones. Italy and Greece are the worst. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 17:46:06 GMT
So, your idea of a humanitarian response blah blah Just fuck off gnome. This is pointless deflection. You said that the EU's response is humanitarian but it's plainly less humanitarian than the UK's response. That's why these scum are all risking their lives to come here. I've lived in many European countries (over about 20 years) and most of them do not like foreigners - especiaily the Black ones. Italy and Greece are the worst. You quote my post, edit my response, then call it a pointless deflection. Are you drunk or something?  By definition, in principle and in practice, the EU's response to refugee crises is and has always been humanitarian. Their response seeks to promote and does promote human welfare so how can you refuse to call it humanitarian? It can't be anything else, can it, now? Everybody knows it, everybody accepts it. Except you. Why? Has your experience of living in many European countries -- obviously, as a foreigner yourself -- not taught you anything at all about empathy and tempering, if not completely eradicating, your bigotry and xenophobia? BTW, the UK ranks fifth in terms of asylum application received behind Germany, France, Spain and Austria. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 17, 2023 6:18:18 GMT
Fuck off gnome. The facts show that the EU is paying billions to keep millions of asylum seekers in detention camps to prevent them getting to the EU. And our acceptance rate of asylum seekers is far higher than any European country. AND that the migrant scum are paying large amounts of money to get out of France and come to the UK. As I said most European countries are VERY unsympathetic to these scum. If you knew anything about Europe - I bet you haven't ever lived there - you'd know that their prejudice against foreigners is socially acceptable. It's passed the dinner table test. People open talk in a racist manner in a way that would never happen in the UK.
Humanitarian? You're an ignorant idiot. You know nothing about the EU - as you show with every post - and nothing about Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 8:09:42 GMT
Fuck off gnome. The facts show that the EU is paying billions to keep millions of asylum seekers in detention camps to prevent them getting to the EU. And our acceptance rate of asylum seekers is far higher than any European country. AND that the migrant scum are paying large amounts of money to get out of France and come to the UK. As I said most European countries are VERY unsympathetic to these scum. If you knew anything about Europe - I bet you haven't ever lived there - you'd know that their prejudice against foreigners is socially acceptable. It's passed the dinner table test. People open talk in a racist manner in a way that would never happen in the UK. Humanitarian? You're an ignorant idiot. You know nothing about the EU - as you show with every post - and nothing about Europe. Look at you. Just look at you! You hate the EU because of the refugee arrangements with Turkey. Actually, you hate the EU. Full stop. You hate people smuggling asylum seekers into Europe. You hate asylum seekers for fleeing wars and daring to come to Europe. Because, according to you, they're scum who terrorise the UK. And so, you want to turn them into fish feed or let them freeze to death at the border in Hungary. You hate the Europeans particularly the Italians and the Greeks because they're racist towards asylum seekers. Or. They're just racist. You, yourself, are racist based on what you have been saying about the foreigners -- Europeans and asylum seekers, muslim people and people smugglers. You are racist living happily with racists for twenty years; but noooot really living happily with racists because you hate racists. But you're racist yourself. You, steppenwolf? You are brain dead. Nothing left inside that thick skull of yours but sand. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 8:19:00 GMT
I haven't seen Steppenwolf or anyone else claim they hate Europeans. They may hate the EU, and for good reason, but not Europe or the European people. My guess is that Gnome is just another EUphile mini-Hitler.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 17, 2023 13:24:23 GMT
Yes, you've got it dead right B-4. I definitely don't hate Europe and I've lived in Holland and Italy for many years. But I do think the EU is a pernicious organisation that was founded for good reasons after World War 2 but has turned into an imperialist monster that has caused a war in Ukraine that may escalate into something disastrous for the whole of Europe - and us.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 13:33:29 GMT
It's about time someone said this. I've been reminded of it because so many people have said that one of things Boris got right is our support of Ukraine (costing many billions). Boris got a lot right but this was one he got wrong. The EU has been constantly provoking Putin over many years by its extension of its "empire" (and NATO) to the east. It was only a matter of time until Putin reacted - and this has been forecast for years, since long before even Russia's annexation of Crimea. It's been obvious for decades that, far from the EU being a peace keeping force in Europe, the next war in Europe would be CAUSED by the EU. And so it has turned out. This should have been one of the Brexit bonuses - like not contributing to the EU's £200 billin covid fund. The UK should have just told the EU that it's their problem - sort it. Unfortunately Boris chose to grandstand. That was stupid. He's just made the UK a major target for Russia and chosen to fund a proxy war with Russia that Ukraine can never win. It has to be a negotiated settlement, so the negotiations should take place before more people die. It's actually all an American proxy war that we're financing. And the grinning monkey, Rashid Sanuk, has gone along with it. Fucking crazy. But he knows nothing of politics. he's just made a very dangerous enemy in Boris. Rarely have I seen a post which is so far removed from reality, but this opening post is one such post. Firstly, the European Union DOES NOT actively go out canvassing or seeking new members, it is up to individual nations to decide for themselves as to whether they wish to apply for membership to the European Union. If you could do some research with an open mind, you would discover that a desire to join the EU by Ukraine is driven by Public Opinion. The reasons for MOST Ukrainians wanting closer ties with the EU are (1) they do not want a return to the days of manipulation and influence of Russia, and secondly (2) most Ukrainians believe they would have a much better future as part of the European Union. But its not simply the European Union, most Ukrainians wish to belong to the Western World, where society is more open, more Liberal, more free, and where the rule of law actually means something, unlike in Russia, and unlike in the past in Ukraine. Corruption, nepotism, dodgy democracy, fixed elections, fake news, authoritarianism, limited human rights and controlled media were all part and parcel of Soviet life, and are still part of life to a large degree in Russia, and Russias closest ally ( Belarus ) is the most oppressive regime in Europe. Many Ukrainians look to Poland, the Baltic States, the Czech Republic and other neighbouring states, and they see how much freedoms their people enjoy, and how their economies and living standards have improved, and the people of Ukraine want the same. For most Ukrainians, they have discovered a true Ukrainian culture since 1992, their own language, their own literature and art, their own regional customs and cuisine; They have come to realise that THEIR Ukrainian way of life does not have to be controled or heavily influenced by Russia ..... its called Independence, and Putin doesnt like it. |
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