|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 14, 2023 9:27:18 GMT
Putin caused the war in Ukraine, the EU appeased him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2023 10:28:59 GMT
The EU's imperialism has been threatening Russia for a long time. And the EU have been cosying up to Ukraine for a long time with the obvious intent of taking Ukraine into the orbit of the West and out of Russia's sphere of influence. The EU must know that the Russians are very sensitive about Ukraine and a lot of Russians live there. Yet the EU has been provoking Putin for years with the threat of NATO right on their borders. The annexation of Crimea should have been a warning to the EU but they just carried on until the inevitable happened. Now they're doubling down by granting Ukraine candidate status for accession to the EU. And Finland has joined NATO. The EU has created a major problem for themselves now. Putin is bad person to provoke because he's unstable. How would the USA feel if Russia put a rocket base on CUba. They would be furious. It was always going to happen that the EU political project would get out of control. The original purpose of the EU was to unite Europe and avoid war but the politicians have got more and more imperialistic over time and it was obvious years ago that the EU are more likely to be the cause of war than a peace keeping force. Our role has been naive. This is nothing to do with us and because we're out of the EU we could just stand aside and not have to pay into the EU's coffers for all the support that they'll give Ukraine. That would have been a big Brexit bonus. Now we're part of an unwinnable war. Ukraine can never beat Russia because they're a fraction of the size - and if NATO gets involved it will be a disaster. Putin is mad and won't back down. He needed to be given way out. Putin is dangerous but I think the EU is even more dangerous. It's going to destroy Europe. What compromises your claim is the fact that Ukraine does not reject or discourage the EU's overtures. The courtship is symbiotic. The EU wants Ukraine; Ukraine wants the EU. No threat there. The threat comes from Vlad who's feeling unreasonably aggrieved because he unjustifiably feels Russia has become the third wheel. He clearly believes that Russia still has dibs over Ukraine and the whole of Eastern Europe. So, now, not only does he annex Crimea; he also invades the entire Ukrainian territory to force it to toe the Russian line. Is it justifiable? No. Maybe you could tone down the outrage if Ukraine were a willing victim. But that's not the case here. Ukraine wants to ally with the EU, so what should the EU, the US or the UK do -- pander to Putin's megalomania, as you are suggesting? We could have stayed neutral but this pesky little thing called Brexit compelled us to take sides. Brexit sunk our economy and after the zero-economic-benefit deals with Australia and Japan; the only logical trade deal that could perhaps help replace what we have lost from Brexit is that with Washington. So, now, our choice is either: Stay neutral; most likely no trade deal with US; economy stagnates. Or, take the American side, most like a trade deal with the US; economy grows. There is no such thing as a Brexit bonus. A "bonus" is an extra unexpected advantage gained or received on top of what is already achieved. In what way can the EU destroy Europe, btw? |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 14, 2023 10:42:09 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 14, 2023 10:49:26 GMT
It's about time someone said this. I've been reminded of it because so many people have said that one of things Boris got right is our support of Ukraine (costing many billions). Boris got a lot right but this was one he got wrong. The EU has been constantly provoking Putin over many years by its extension of its "empire" (and NATO) to the east. It was only a matter of time until Putin reacted - and this has been forecast for years, since long before even Russia's annexation of Crimea. It's been obvious for decades that, far from the EU being a peace keeping force in Europe, the next war in Europe would be CAUSED by the EU. And so it has turned out. This should have been one of the Brexit bonuses - like not contributing to the EU's £200 billin covid fund. The UK should have just told the EU that it's their problem - sort it. Unfortunately Boris chose to grandstand. That was stupid. He's just made the UK a major target for Russia and chosen to fund a proxy war with Russia that Ukraine can never win. It has to be a negotiated settlement, so the negotiations should take place before more people die. It's actually all an American proxy war that we're financing. And the grinning monkey, Rashid Sanuk, has gone along with it. Fucking crazy. But he knows nothing of politics. he's just made a very dangerous enemy in Boris. There is enough cobalt under Ukraine to supply the electric car industry battery production and also enough gas to power the entire EU. |
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Jun 14, 2023 12:31:20 GMT
In what way can the EU destroy Europe, btw? It's already done it, you numpty. You just didn't notice. It's not just that the EU has been in economic stagnation for years (except for Germany who control the money) but its socially liberal politics have opened Europe's borders to the world. In particular the Schengen agreement has made Europe's security only as strong as countries like Italy and Greece - and they couldn't give a shit about guarding the borders because they just let everyone in knowing that they don't want to live there - they'll go to the countries who are more open and pay far better benefits. So the EU is now overrun by illegal migrants. They're paying Billions to Erdogan to keep millions of potential refugees in detention camps but you can't trust a blackmailer. At the moment they funnel all these undesirables to England. But that simply can't continue - there are too many. The Europe we knew is already destroyed. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 14, 2023 12:38:44 GMT
It's about time someone said this. I've been reminded of it because so many people have said that one of things Boris got right is our support of Ukraine (costing many billions). Boris got a lot right but this was one he got wrong. The EU has been constantly provoking Putin over many years by its extension of its "empire" (and NATO) to the east. It was only a matter of time until Putin reacted - and this has been forecast for years, since long before even Russia's annexation of Crimea. It's been obvious for decades that, far from the EU being a peace keeping force in Europe, the next war in Europe would be CAUSED by the EU. And so it has turned out. This should have been one of the Brexit bonuses - like not contributing to the EU's £200 billin covid fund. The UK should have just told the EU that it's their problem - sort it. Unfortunately Boris chose to grandstand. That was stupid. He's just made the UK a major target for Russia and chosen to fund a proxy war with Russia that Ukraine can never win. It has to be a negotiated settlement, so the negotiations should take place before more people die. It's actually all an American proxy war that we're financing. And the grinning monkey, Rashid Sanuk, has gone along with it. Fucking crazy. But he knows nothing of politics. he's just made a very dangerous enemy in Boris. There is enough cobalt under Ukraine to supply the electric car industry battery production and also enough gas to power the entire EU. And none of that belongs to Putin. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 14, 2023 12:52:45 GMT
There is enough cobalt under Ukraine to supply the electric car industry battery production and also enough gas to power the entire EU. And none of that belongs to Putin. Well around both Russia and Ukraine it has been Western firms like BP and Shell who have been involved in this exploration. In Russia they partnered with Russian energy firms and in Ukraine they organised a colour revolution and installed Zelensky, who is Russian by the way. You would not know he is Russian, and nor would I, but when he speaks there are many words which are pronounced differently in Russian compared to Ukrainian and the twit keeps on pronouncing them like a Russian would. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jun 14, 2023 13:07:37 GMT
Nope.
Born to a Ukrainian Jewish family, Zelenskyy grew up as a native Russian speaker in Kryvyi Rih, a major city of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast in central Ukraine.
Wiki
His father.
Oleksandr Semenovych Zelenskyy (Ukrainian: Олександр Семенович Зеленський; born 23 December 1947) is a Ukrainian mining scientist and mathematician[1] who specializes in the automation of geological and surveying support. He is a professor[2] and a doctor of technical sciences.[3] Zelenskyy has been the head of the Kryvyi Rih State University's Department of Cybernetics and Computing Hardware since 1995.
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jun 14, 2023 13:15:43 GMT
It's about time someone said this. I've been reminded of it because so many people have said that one of things Boris got right is our support of Ukraine (costing many billions). Boris got a lot right but this was one he got wrong. The EU has been constantly provoking Putin over many years by its extension of its "empire" (and NATO) to the east. It was only a matter of time until Putin reacted - and this has been forecast for years, since long before even Russia's annexation of Crimea. It's been obvious for decades that, far from the EU being a peace keeping force in Europe, the next war in Europe would be CAUSED by the EU. And so it has turned out. This should have been one of the Brexit bonuses - like not contributing to the EU's £200 billin covid fund. The UK should have just told the EU that it's their problem - sort it. Unfortunately Boris chose to grandstand. That was stupid. He's just made the UK a major target for Russia and chosen to fund a proxy war with Russia that Ukraine can never win. It has to be a negotiated settlement, so the negotiations should take place before more people die. It's actually all an American proxy war that we're financing. And the grinning monkey, Rashid Sanuk, has gone along with it. Fucking crazy. But he knows nothing of politics. he's just made a very dangerous enemy in Boris. Is the moon still made of cheese, Snuggles? |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 14, 2023 13:43:37 GMT
Voloydymr is no Russian, he's from Kryvyi Rih, a city in central Ukraine.
The fact that he speaks Russian is no more weird than someone from Ireland speaking English as a first language.
It is no justification for Putin to invade.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2023 13:51:15 GMT
In what way can the EU destroy Europe, btw? It's already done it, you numpty. You just didn't notice. It's not just that the EU has been in economic stagnation for years (except for Germany who control the money) but its socially liberal politics have opened Europe's borders to the world. In particular the Schengen agreement has made Europe's security only as strong as countries like Italy and Greece - and they couldn't give a shit about guarding the borders because they just let everyone in knowing that they don't want to live there - they'll go to the countries who are more open and pay far better benefits. So the EU is now overrun by illegal migrants. They're paying Billions to Erdogan to keep millions of potential refugees in detention camps but you can't trust a blackmailer. At the moment they funnel all these undesirables to England. But that simply can't continue - there are too many. The Europe we knew is already destroyed. So, the EU destroyed "the Europe we knew" through its humanitarian response to the refugee/migrant crises that had been created by civil wars in countries that were not part of the EU. Bluntly speaking, the EU allowed too many Iraqis, Syrians, Afghans, Africans, etc. to roam the streets of Paris, Vienna, Amsterdam, Berlin and Hamburg -- that's what you mean by the destruction of Europe in the hands of the EU. Isn't it? According to you, this supposed destruction of Europe is not so much about any existential and economic issues as the destructive effects of migrants or refugees on the societies of Europe. E.g., Paris is not Paris anymore because Barbes-Rochechouart is overrun by Congolese and Senegalese refugees. I have to say; that ^ is totally consistent with the reason behind your passionate, unwavering support for Brexit -- it's not about the economy; it's just that there are too many foreigners destroying the fabric of the British society. |
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Jun 15, 2023 6:23:47 GMT
Putin caused the war in Ukraine, the EU appeased him. No. Putin started the war. The EU caused it. They left him no alternative. I don't think they did it deliberately - it was just incompetence. |
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Jun 15, 2023 6:38:36 GMT
It's already done it, you numpty. You just didn't notice. It's not just that the EU has been in economic stagnation for years (except for Germany who control the money) but its socially liberal politics have opened Europe's borders to the world. In particular the Schengen agreement has made Europe's security only as strong as countries like Italy and Greece - and they couldn't give a shit about guarding the borders because they just let everyone in knowing that they don't want to live there - they'll go to the countries who are more open and pay far better benefits. So the EU is now overrun by illegal migrants. They're paying Billions to Erdogan to keep millions of potential refugees in detention camps but you can't trust a blackmailer. At the moment they funnel all these undesirables to England. But that simply can't continue - there are too many. The Europe we knew is already destroyed. So, the EU destroyed "the Europe we knew" through its humanitarian response to the refugee/migrant crises that had been created by civil wars in countries that were not part of the EU. Bluntly speaking, the EU allowed too many Iraqis, Syrians, Afghans, Africans, etc. to roam the streets of Paris, Vienna, Amsterdam, Berlin and Hamburg -- that's what you mean by the destruction of Europe in the hands of the EU. Isn't it? According to you, this supposed destruction of Europe is not so much about any existential and economic issues as the destructive effects of migrants or refugees on the societies of Europe. E.g., Paris is not Paris anymore because Barbes-Rochechouart is overrun by Congolese and Senegalese refugees. I have to say; that ^ is totally consistent with the reason behind your passionate, unwavering support for Brexit -- it's not about the economy; it's just that there are too many foreigners destroying the fabric of the British society. There are many reasons for my support of Brexit. It was always primarily about uncontrolled immigration and lack of sovereignty. But the basic flaws in the Eurozone's structure is another reason to get out - briefly it won't work without fiscal union but the member nations will never agree to it. As for the EU's "humanitarian" response to the refugee/migrant crises, fuck right off. The EU are paying billions for Turkey to keep millions of these people in detention camps - and Germany are also considering deporting undesirables to Rwanda (or elsewhere). There's nothing humanitarian about the EU. |
|
|
|
Post by Hutchyns on Jun 15, 2023 7:25:08 GMT
gnome I'm not sure such a clear distinction can be made, in that destructive effects on a society (whether caused by migrants or anyone else) are viewed as an existential concern by a significant portion of the citizens within that society. Distruction does tend to raise alarm, and its causes identified and solutions sought. There's no reticence, as the Daily Telegraph spelled out yesterday, in openly stating that Venice is no longer Venice due to an influx of White middle class tourists. Equally, we shouldn't be squeamish about giving a realistic explanation if Paris has undergone significant change for the worst.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2023 9:42:54 GMT
So, the EU destroyed "the Europe we knew" through its humanitarian response to the refugee/migrant crises that had been created by civil wars in countries that were not part of the EU. Bluntly speaking, the EU allowed too many Iraqis, Syrians, Afghans, Africans, etc. to roam the streets of Paris, Vienna, Amsterdam, Berlin and Hamburg -- that's what you mean by the destruction of Europe in the hands of the EU. Isn't it? According to you, this supposed destruction of Europe is not so much about any existential and economic issues as the destructive effects of migrants or refugees on the societies of Europe. E.g., Paris is not Paris anymore because Barbes-Rochechouart is overrun by Congolese and Senegalese refugees. I have to say; that ^ is totally consistent with the reason behind your passionate, unwavering support for Brexit -- it's not about the economy; it's just that there are too many foreigners destroying the fabric of the British society. There are many reasons for my support of Brexit. It was always primarily about uncontrolled immigration and lack of sovereignty. But the basic flaws in the Eurozone's structure is another reason to get out - briefly it won't work without fiscal union but the member nations will never agree to it. As for the EU's "humanitarian" response to the refugee/migrant crises, fuck right off. The EU are paying billions for Turkey to keep millions of these people in detention camps - and Germany are also considering deporting undesirables to Rwanda (or elsewhere). There's nothing humanitarian about the EU. The UK was never in the Eurozone. We opted out, didn't we? On what ground does the EU (or the UK, US, et al., for that matter) grant asylum, or at least consider application, to those at their borders? So, they are paying Turkey billions and billions of Euros for migrant management. Do you have a better solution??? |
|
