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Post by Vinny on Jun 13, 2023 10:35:39 GMT
As Brexit has painfully confirmed for thousands of Brits, only EU nationals can benefit from the FoM Directive. Third country nationals, whether from the UK or Niger, are not entitled to it even if permanently resident in an EU member state. Freedom of movement around the EU is shit. It isn't needed and doesn't justify the £12bn we'd now be paying per year (post rebate) if we'd voted to stay members. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 13, 2023 10:39:18 GMT
It isn't needed = I don't need it, so it's shit.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 13, 2023 11:06:41 GMT
Its easy to challenge. If this forecast was true then since 2016 the UK would have grown at twice the rate of Germany. Now you will have to remind me what it was about the UK economy in 2016 that would have generated such terrific growth rates? - because I certainly cannot remember anything. But perhaps Cameron and Osbourne were economic geniuses who had revolutionized the UK economy - who knew?..  By challenge, I meant, successful challenge. Start again, please. No - I'll leave you in your bubble believing that Cameron and Osborne were economic geniuses - I suppose someone has to.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 13, 2023 11:07:43 GMT
It isn't needed = I don't need it, so it's shit. Well everything is a value judgement. FoM is of absolutely no value to those that dont use it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 13, 2023 11:08:42 GMT
Blair wanted to introduce ID cards for precisely the reason you highlight - but the political opposition was simply too high. You are perfectly correct that there were things that in theory could have been done - practically there was hardly anything. You're answering a different question to the one I asked. No - I am agreeing with you. In theory something could have been done and the public may well have supported it. However in practice... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 11:23:29 GMT
by a remain supporting organisation... About as "reliable" as an ash-tray on a motorbike. You must be referring to this Brexiteer blog called Briefings for Britain.  The gravitas, reliability and respect quotient of CER is so high that major, big time, neutral and well respected newspapers have no qualms running and printing CER reports and studies. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 13, 2023 11:30:48 GMT
Yes but those changes were politically untenable in the UK. Politics is the art of the possible and any significant changes as you propose were never going to materialise. Are you saying that the public would not have been in favour of eliminating the 'black' economy and returning to a contributions-based benefits system?
Did anyone put it to them?
You won't eliminate the black economy, that's for the birds. Why didn't anyone try to eliminate the black economy while we were a member of the EU for 40 years. It's a bit late now saying what should have happened when the UK had all the time in the world when it was a member to do such a thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 11:32:11 GMT
By challenge, I meant, successful challenge. Start again, please. No - I'll leave you in your bubble believing that Cameron and Osborne were economic geniuses - I suppose someone has to.. When someone tries to challenge the reliability of an organisation like the CER and their studies by projecting the UK economy off the economy of Germany, then you can dismiss his or her supposed challenge immediately. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 13, 2023 11:38:49 GMT
About as "reliable" as an ash-tray on a motorbike. You must be referring to this Brexiteer blog called Briefings for Britain. The gravitas, reliability and respect quotient of CER is so high that major, big time, neutral and well respected newspapers have no qualms running and printing CER reports and studies. Yes. It was rebutted long ago. You have to believe in counterfactual modelling because it supports your narrative. Unfortunately for you though, counterfactual modelling isn't proof of anything especially something as complex as the economy, especially as its counterfactual. lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 11:47:18 GMT
You must be referring to this Brexiteer blog called Briefings for Britain. The gravitas, reliability and respect quotient of CER is so high that major, big time, neutral and well respected newspapers have no qualms running and printing CER reports and studies. Yes. It was rebutted long ago. You have to believe in counterfactual modelling because it supports your narrative. Unfortunately for you though, counterfactual modelling isn't proof of anything especially something as complex as the economy, especially as its counterfactual. lol Oh?! Rebutted by whom? |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 13, 2023 12:53:33 GMT
As Brexit has painfully confirmed for thousands of Brits, only EU nationals can benefit from the FoM Directive. Third country nationals, whether from the UK or Niger, are not entitled to it even if permanently resident in an EU member state. Yes Daniel and I'm sure you can explain how non-EU people get from the Mediterranean coast to Calais, unhindered. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 13, 2023 13:43:50 GMT
However they do it it isn't through exercising their Treaty rights to Freedom of Movement since they don't apply to them.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 13, 2023 14:46:48 GMT
It isn't needed = I don't need it, so it's shit. Economic immigration is possible without the EU freedom of movement policy, (visas, work permits) therefore EU freedom of movement policy isn't needed.
This thread proves we can get the workers we need without EU policy.
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 13, 2023 15:29:04 GMT
It isn't needed = I don't need it, so it's shit. Economic immigration is possible without the EU freedom of movement policy, (visas, work permits) therefore EU freedom of movement policy isn't needed.
This thread proves we can get the workers we need without EU policy.
Of course you can. Just pay them 10,000 quid each and they will come running. The UK could ALWAYS hire people from outside the EU. There are large communities from China and the USA for example. The difference is that instead of just their needing extra paperwork and assurances and sponsors and proof of earnings while EU citizens didnt, now EVERYONE needs all that hassle. If that is a benefit, oranges are square. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 13, 2023 17:07:11 GMT
No - I'll leave you in your bubble believing that Cameron and Osborne were economic geniuses - I suppose someone has to.. When someone tries to challenge the reliability of an organisation like the CER and their studies by projecting the UK economy off the economy of Germany, then you can dismiss his or her supposed challenge immediately. LOL - are you honestly telling me that you thought the UK economy in 2016 was booming so much that in the following 7 years it was going to grow twice as much as Germany?.. Do you want to buy a bridge?.. |
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The gravitas, reliability and respect quotient of CER is so high that major, big time, neutral and well respected newspapers have no qualms running and printing CER reports and studies. 