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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 12:23:43 GMT
The part where you keep missing the point. It is so simple yet you don't get any of it.  That poster was claiming that we would be flooded by EU and non EU migrants and that it was the fault of the EU. Let's get that one thing straight in your head, at least. The article I cited is a report on the current state of post Brexit immigration affairs. Immigration affairs include both EU and non-EU migrants. My opening statement is a dig at Nige Farage and Co. and their loyal supporters about the failure of their Brexit project vis a vis their gas lighting tactics. It might come across as smug and accusing to fact-twisting Brexit supporters but it certainly is not a whine. Where did the poster claim we would be flooded by non EU migrants ? Your claim was that Farage said Turkey would join the EU , so Turkeys migrants would be EU migrants . You keep projecting your own obtuseness . Look at the whole line of men depicted in the poster. Can't you take a hint? Farage was quoted in March 2016 (and I am sure there are so many more quotes attributed to him) as follows: "Most worrying of all, it is now clear that Turkey will be fast-tracked into membership of the European Union - a position agreed by David Cameron and (former foreign secretary) William Hague.
"Perhaps this referendum on June 23 will become a referendum on whether we wish to be in a political union with Turkey. A vote for Remain is a vote for Turkey."
Take a hint already! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 12:27:19 GMT
This thread is atypical of a remoaner, who is remoaning about immigration from non-EU-countries. Another waster of bandwidth. Pointless and troll-like. ^ Sad.  |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 12:28:53 GMT
Where did the poster claim we would be flooded by non EU migrants ? Your claim was that Farage said Turkey would join the EU , so Turkeys migrants would be EU migrants . You keep projecting your own obtuseness . Look at the whole line of men depicted in the poster. Can't you take a hint? Farage was quoted in March 2016 (and I am sure there are so many more quotes attributed to him) as follows: "Most worrying of all, it is now clear that Turkey will be fast-tracked into membership of the European Union - a position agreed by David Cameron and (former foreign secretary) William Hague.
"Perhaps this referendum on June 23 will become a referendum on whether we wish to be in a political union with Turkey. A vote for Remain is a vote for Turkey."
Take a hint already! I took the hint that you couldn’t find any evidence to support your argument that Farage claimed the EU was going to be flooded by non Eu some time ago . He claimed that Turkey was going to join the EU and he was wrong … Meanwhile we are getting a lot of non EU immigrants . Why aren’t the lefties happy with diversity? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 12:36:23 GMT
Brexit itself was or is fundamentally right wing nationalist. And where there is right wing nationalism, xenophobia is not far behind. Nige and his supporters pandered to this sentiment and he encapsulated it in his "Breaking Point: the EU Failed Us All" anti-migrant poster. No,it wasn’t and the remainers who based their campaign on that and imminent financial Armageddon lost because they peddled that lie . No he didn’t . Anti uncontrolled immigration …….The failures of Brexit, exactly. Failure one is the dismissal of the fact that within FOM was a mechanism to control immigration driven by the nationalist desire to have full control of immigration. Failure two is the fact that now that we have Brexited, immigration into the UK has gone up as opposed to the aim and promise to reduce it. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 12:44:19 GMT
No,it wasn’t and the remainers who based their campaign on that and imminent financial Armageddon lost because they peddled that lie . No he didn’t . Anti uncontrolled immigration …….The failures of Brexit, exactly. Failure one is the dismissal of the fact that within FOM was a mechanism to control immigration driven by the nationalist desire to have full control of immigration. Failure two is the fact that now that we have Brexited, immigration into the UK has gone up as opposed to the aim and promise to reduce it. Having control of immigration is a prudent and sensible policy , not a nationalistic ‘ desire’ lol. Freedom of movement is freedom of movement. Once you control freedom of movement it ceases to be free . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 12:45:11 GMT
Look at the whole line of men depicted in the poster. Can't you take a hint? Farage was quoted in March 2016 (and I am sure there are so many more quotes attributed to him) as follows: "Most worrying of all, it is now clear that Turkey will be fast-tracked into membership of the European Union - a position agreed by David Cameron and (former foreign secretary) William Hague.
"Perhaps this referendum on June 23 will become a referendum on whether we wish to be in a political union with Turkey. A vote for Remain is a vote for Turkey."
Take a hint already! I took the hint that you couldn’t find any evidence to support your argument that Farage claimed the EU was going to be flooded by non Eu some time ago . He claimed that Turkey was going to join the EU and he was wrong … Meanwhile we are getting a lot of non EU immigrants . Why aren’t the lefties happy with diversity? I forgot that you need to be directed to evidence like leading a horse to water. Tough, I'm not gonna do that for you. I've already given you directions. Farage claimed that Turkey's ascension into the EU was imminent. He knew it was not the case or he must have known that it was not the case -- he was an MEP, for crying out loud! -- yet he peddled this idea and even introduced a visual aide in the form of an anti-migrant poster for the public to grasp his whole false concept. Now, it has backfired on him, hasn't it? Why are you even inserting the issue of diversity into the argument? Do you want us to discuss diversity rather than the failures of Brexit and Farage's contribution to its failure? Fair enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 12:52:23 GMT
The failures of Brexit, exactly. Failure one is the dismissal of the fact that within FOM was a mechanism to control immigration driven by the nationalist desire to have full control of immigration. Failure two is the fact that now that we have Brexited, immigration into the UK has gone up as opposed to the aim and promise to reduce it. , not a nationalistic ‘ desire’ lol. Freedom of movement is freedom of movement. Once you control freedom of movement it ceases to be free . Needless to say! But control of immigration becomes prudent and sensible only when you take nationalism out of the equation. Isn't it? There we go -- FOM isn't really free since there are controls! |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 13:13:56 GMT
Having control of immigration is a prudent and sensible policy , not a nationalistic ‘ desire’ lol. Freedom of movement is freedom of movement. Once you control freedom of movement it ceases to be free . Needless to say! But control of immigration becomes prudent and sensible only when you take nationalism out of the equation. Isn't it? There we go -- FOM isn't really free since there are controls! It isn’t in the equation . Otherwise Ex remainers wouldn’t be posting threads with “ Non-EU workers outnumber EU ones“as a thread title, would they ? 😁 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 13:42:06 GMT
Needless to say! But control of immigration becomes prudent and sensible only when you take nationalism out of the equation. Isn't it? There we go -- FOM isn't really free since there are controls! It isn’t in the equation . Otherwise Ex remainers wouldn’t be posting threads with “ Non-EU workers outnumber EU ones“as a thread title, would they ? 😁 You say nationalism is not in the equation. But nationalism is in the very heart of the leave vote. It may have escaped your confused mind but the fact is, Brexit per se equals nationalism. Doesn't it? I mean, we voted to leave because we wanted to take back control of our borders; regain "lost independence"; regain shared sovereignty; take full control of immigration; take full control of trade, and all other things that pandered to our strong desire to be on our own, free of foreign connection and influence. All such sentiments ^ particularly when taken as a whole fall under one over arching concept. And it's called Nationalism. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 14:00:09 GMT
1. Should we have British jobs for British workers, like Gordon Brown said (and got slapped down).
2. Should we have a system where British people have a preference for vacancies in Britain?
3. Should we have a system where European Union citizens take priority over the rest of the world for British jobs?
4. Should we have a system where jobs are open to anyone worldwide with the right qualifications or experience?
When we left the EU we moved from number 3 to number 4 and I have no complaints about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 14:01:07 GMT
"Non-EU workers outnumber EU ones" Indeed, and thanks to the EU they have all arrived in this country via the EU. That's not true. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 14:08:47 GMT
It isn’t in the equation . Otherwise Ex remainers wouldn’t be posting threads with “ Non-EU workers outnumber EU ones“as a thread title, would they ? 😁 You say nationalism is not in the equation. But nationalism is in the very heart of the leave vote. It may have escaped your confused mind but the fact is, Brexit per se equals nationalism. Doesn't it? I mean, we voted to leave because we wanted to take back control of our borders; regain "lost independence"; regain shared sovereignty; take full control of immigration; take full control of trade, and all other things that pandered to our strong desire to be on our own, free of foreign connection and influence. All such sentiments ^ particularly when taken as a whole fall under one over arching concept. And it's called Nationalism. No it’s not . Nationalism is an emotive concept . Brexit was based on pragmatism as is immigration control . Its confused ex remainers like you cling to the “ little englander “ lie. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 14:18:34 GMT
The failures of Brexit, exactly. Failure one is the dismissal of the fact that within FOM was a mechanism to control immigration driven by the nationalist desire to have full control of immigration. Failure two is the fact that now that we have Brexited, immigration into the UK has gone up as opposed to the aim and promise to reduce it. Having control of immigration is a prudent and sensible policy , not a nationalistic ‘ desire’ lol. Freedom of movement is freedom of movement. Once you control freedom of movement it ceases to be free . But FoM in the EU context is something very different from freedom of residence. The former only provides for a three-month temporary stay in another member state, it does not allow for permanent residence unless an EU national is able to claim 'treaty rights'.
That was the blunder successive British governments made - failing to remove individuals who did not qualify under the terms of the Directive. Allied to the traditional laisser-faire approach to labour market regulation and the largely non-contributory benefits system 'FoM' was always going to be problematic for the UK, to an extent it has not been for other EU states who exercised more control over the process.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 14:43:47 GMT
You say nationalism is not in the equation. But nationalism is in the very heart of the leave vote. It may have escaped your confused mind but the fact is, Brexit per se equals nationalism. Doesn't it? I mean, we voted to leave because we wanted to take back control of our borders; regain "lost independence"; regain shared sovereignty; take full control of immigration; take full control of trade, and all other things that pandered to our strong desire to be on our own, free of foreign connection and influence. All such sentiments ^ particularly when taken as a whole fall under one over arching concept. And it's called Nationalism. No it’s not . Nationalism is an emotive concept . Brexit was based on pragmatism as is immigration control . Its confused ex remainers like you cling to the “ little englander “ lie. There's nothing pragmatic about Brexit. Pragmatism is when, for instance, you accept SM and Customs Union in order to increase or not disrupt your economy. Nationalism is when you sacrifice your economy for this idea of claiming absolute sovereignty. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 12, 2023 17:12:43 GMT
Having control of immigration is a prudent and sensible policy , not a nationalistic ‘ desire’ lol. Freedom of movement is freedom of movement. Once you control freedom of movement it ceases to be free . But FoM in the EU context is something very different from freedom of residence. The former only provides for a three-month temporary stay in another member state, it does not allow for permanent residence unless an EU national is able to claim 'treaty rights'. That was the blunder successive British governments made - failing to remove individuals who did not qualify under the terms of the Directive. Allied to the traditional laisser-faire approach to labour market regulation and the largely non-contributory benefits system 'FoM' was always going to be problematic for the UK, to an extent it has not been for other EU states who exercised more control over the process.
Which is why we needed to leave to get control. |
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