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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2023 15:49:19 GMT
Fine with me, I made the whole thing up. That's not exactly news for the rest of us, but you'll feel better now you've got it off your chest. Indeed well done now stop making stuff up in your own little world, |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 9, 2023 15:51:23 GMT
That's not exactly news for the rest of us, but you'll feel better now you've got it off your chest. Indeed well done now stop making stuff up in your own little world, What, like the imaginary internet referendums you've been lying through your teeth about. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2023 15:55:22 GMT
Indeed well done now stop making stuff up in your own little world, What, like the imaginary internet referendums you've been lying through your teeth about. Well where are the Westminster party voters then? they certainly ain't joining the Labour party or the Conservatives and the Lib Dems are a lost cause, while your dream of EU total control is in tatters, just saying maybe you should keep your anger under control, maybe anger management. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 9, 2023 15:56:34 GMT
What, like the imaginary internet referendums you've been lying through your teeth about. Well where are the Westminster party voters then? they certainly ain't joining the Labour party or the Conservatives and the Lib Dems are a lost cause, while your dream of EU total control is in tatters, just saying maybe you should keep your anger under control, maybe anger management. Yeah! Better to change the subject, Sheeps. You've been caught out in a silly lie, so move the discussion onto something else. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2023 15:57:33 GMT
Well where are the Westminster party voters then? they certainly ain't joining the Labour party or the Conservatives and the Lib Dems are a lost cause, while your dream of EU total control is in tatters, just saying maybe you should keep your anger under control, maybe anger management. Yeah! Better to change the subject, Sheeps. You've been caught out in a silly lie, so move the discussion onto something else. Which lie? you said I lied about every thread being a referendum but you made that up as well? |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 9, 2023 15:58:13 GMT
Yeah! Better to change the subject, Sheeps. You've been caught out in a silly lie, so move the discussion onto something else. Which lie? you said I lied about every thread being a referendum but you made that up as well? Sigh! |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 9, 2023 16:04:46 GMT
For me the concept of holding referendum is merely a sign of weak governance and merely leads to divisiveness and confusion...QED BREXIT....most people cannot fathom the concept of the EU, its philosophy or its aims or its future direction of travel; let alone have a basis upon which to form a coherent view especially with all the uninformed noise and crap from social media that surrounds such political indescision nowadays. Brexit was basically predicated upon the weakness of Cameron against that woeful team of useful idiots, Farage and Johnson. All engaging in some banal exchange of tweets and insults in order to reduce the complexities of the question into some crass popularist narratives that would capture the imagination of brain dead British voters. The Scotsman seems full of festering anger but you liked that. Angry?? On the contrary I voted to leave the EU but not for any argument or rationale gobbed out by the popularist UIs. I thought and still think that Farrage etal are vacuous tits in the pay of others but they served a purpose.
Anyway I'm happy that we have left the EU...if nothing else it proved to me what a wanker Cameron was. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 9, 2023 16:11:23 GMT
...that's my point...one attempts to condense complex international trade and political and diplomatic relations, geopolitical rivalries and tensions and intentions, supply chain/banking and god knows what else into concepts that few can fathom but are told to vote on. How can that form the basis of sensible government? If all you are left with is a sign on the side of a bus which is supposed to encapsulate international relations then I weep....and I did. That assumes that the people in charge are capable of controlling the complex concepts . I don't think one "controls" them but those with the respective brief should be capable of taking counsel from those experts that do allowing them to formulate strategy and manage responses to situations or events as required. Isn't that why we elect Governments? If the "people in charge" are merely going to abrogate their leadership when the whim suits them what does that say about their leadership? |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 9, 2023 16:22:05 GMT
That assumes that the people in charge are capable of controlling the complex concepts . I don't think one "controls" them but those with the respective brief should be capable of taking counsel from those experts that do allowing them to formulate strategy and manage responses to situations or events as required. Isn't that why we elect Governments? If the "people in charge" are merely going to abrogate their leadership when the whim suits them what does that say about their leadership? “ As required “ still alludes to control. We elect governments to work for our interests , don’t we? I suspect Cameron held the referendum to finally nail UKIP and the Brexiters. The Remain campaign was obviously going to win. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 9, 2023 16:25:10 GMT
I don't think one "controls" them but those with the respective brief should be capable of taking counsel from those experts that do allowing them to formulate strategy and manage responses to situations or events as required. Isn't that why we elect Governments? If the "people in charge" are merely going to abrogate their leadership when the whim suits them what does that say about their leadership? “ As required “ still alludes to control. We elect governments to work for our interests , don’t we? I suspect Cameron held the referendum to finally nail UKIP and the Brexiters. The Remain campaign was obviously going to win. ...do we...? One size fits all...? Not sure how that works? Even a utilitarian version of that will fail at some point surely? |
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 9, 2023 16:40:25 GMT
If anyone thinks 27 nations who are getting on quite well without the whining kid in the corner, will unanimously vote to let the UK back in, needs serious care.
Financial markets in France and the Netherlands have done very well. The UK would have to spend billions cleaning up their waterways, having ignored the 1999 EU directive for so long. Traders are increasingly using the Single market instead of filling in all that paperwork. The EU without the UK is attracting impressive FDI.
Who needs the UK??It wouls be like allowing the class delinquent back into the classroom.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 9, 2023 16:46:08 GMT
“ As required “ still alludes to control. We elect governments to work for our interests , don’t we? I suspect Cameron held the referendum to finally nail UKIP and the Brexiters. The Remain campaign was obviously going to win. ...do we...? One size fits all...? Not sure how that works? Even a utilitarian version of that will fail at some point surely? Yes. No. Why? Why did you vote for your choice of candidate , to work for other peoples interests ? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 9, 2023 16:59:13 GMT
There'd have to be an almighty great reason for the UK to rejoin the EU — it's unlikely to get the same favourable benefits and opt-outs it had negotiated while it was a member. That's why the idea of a full Australia-New Zealand-Canada-UK trading alliance is being pushed by CANZUK International and supported primarily by conservatives. Other supporters include the Adam Smith Institute, the Henry Jackson Society The Bruges Group and politicians from the four countries... Heaven forbid we should join one of the fastest growing trade blocs on the planet now that we have finally escaped the slowest..  |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 9, 2023 17:04:32 GMT
Okay, let's hear your plan to hold referendums in a way that doesn't threaten the union. For me the concept of holding referendum is merely a sign of weak governance and merely leads to divisiveness and confusion...QED BREXIT... .most people cannot fathom the concept of the EU, its philosophy or its aims or its future direction of travel; let alone have a basis upon which to form a coherent view especially with all the uninformed noise and crap from social media that surrounds such political indescision nowadays. Brexit was basically predicated upon the weakness of Cameron against that woeful team of useful idiots, Farage and Johnson. All engaging in some banal exchange of tweets and insults in order to reduce the complexities of the question into some crass popularist narratives that would capture the imagination of brain dead British voters. Well that is wrong - the future direction of travel is exactly the same as its been since 1952. If you want to live in a European superstate then fine but to refuse to allow the people a say on that and tell them they must defer to the views of politicians is hardly democratic. But then democracy and the EU are strange bedfellows. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 9, 2023 17:06:08 GMT
...do we...? One size fits all...? Not sure how that works? Even a utilitarian version of that will fail at some point surely? Yes. No. Why? Why did you vote for your choice of candidate , to work for other peoples interests ? ...I'm not sure what you mean by "our interests". I'm pretty sure that what interests me is not what interests you? So on that simple metric alone the concept fails. I'm not in favour of the welfare state but that is merely a component of what constitutes "Government" at the moment. One therefore looks at the components that make up this entity from which one must choose and see how closely it aligns with what I think fits best into my philosophy....which kidda answers your question....
Why did I vote for a candidate. One is more preferable than another.....that doesn't mean that I think they are looking after my interests.
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