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Post by Vinny on May 30, 2023 13:03:57 GMT
Which rules did you collaborate with the Commission to make? I didn't have a say on any. You don't have any say on any rules/laws the government pass other than those in the manifesto I can at least vote for the government, or vote to sack it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:18:06 GMT
You don't have any say on any rules/laws the government pass other than those in the manifesto I can at least vote for the government, or vote to sack it. You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly the same as we did in the EU. |
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Post by jonksy on May 30, 2023 14:29:54 GMT
I can at least vote for the government, or vote to sack it. You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly same as we did in the EU. Pillock Now tell us something we don't know wonky |
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Post by Vinny on May 30, 2023 14:31:33 GMT
Voting for enough MPs changes the government.
Voting for MEPs changes nothing.
The policies of the EU are abstracted from the public in EU politics in a way they are not in British politics.
I can talk to my MP with ideas, my MP can propose policy on my behalf, it can become law.
I could not talk to a Commissioner and propose policies through them as they're not elected, do not hold surgeries and do not have to listen.
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Post by Fairsociety on May 30, 2023 14:42:38 GMT
I can at least vote for the government, or vote to sack it. You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly the same as we did in the EU. The UK people had no say and no voice while we were part of the EU, it was totally undemocratic that we were paying members of a Union that would not let us vote or participate in anything that could have effected us. They called the shots and we had no choice but to obey them, now that's what you call undemocratic, so why would we ever think of rejoining such a Union every again. Unless you are birdbrain Starmer, and his EU loving gravytrain who want cushy jobs within the EU when they've fucked up this country. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:49:33 GMT
You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly same as we did in the EU. Pillock Now tell us something we don't know wonky **** |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 30, 2023 14:49:45 GMT
You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly the same as we did in the EU. The UK people had no say and no voice while we were part of the EU, it was totally undemocratic that we were paying members of a Union that would not let us vote or participate in anything that could have effected us. They called the shots and we had no choice but to obey them, now that's what you call undemocratic, so why would we ever think of rejoining such a Union every again. Unless you are birdbrain Starmer, and his EU loving gravytrain who want cushy jobs within the EU when they've fucked up this country. Starmer & Co want to dismantle democracy and install themselves as a permanent elite, part of the one world government. And only idiots like Wonky think that's a good idea. |
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Post by Vinny on May 30, 2023 14:49:50 GMT
If Starmer wishes to lead, he needs to show he can listen.
So far he's not been very good in that respect.
He said in 2016 he respected the referendum result.
In 2017 promised 50 times no second in / out referendum.
Then as soon as Labour had gained seats on a pro Brexit platform, reverted to his pro EU position called for a 2nd and betrayed the voters who thought he'd listened.
Shadow Brexit secretary now leader of the opposition.
I don't trust him.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:50:20 GMT
Voting for enough MPs changes the government. Voting for MEPs changes nothing. The policies of the EU are abstracted from the public in EU politics in a way they are not in British politics. I can talk to my MP with ideas, my MP can propose policy on my behalf, it can become law. I could not talk to a Commissioner and propose policies through them as they're not elected, do not hold surgeries and do not have to listen. You would talk to your MEP. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:52:54 GMT
You cannot vote for the government only an MP to represent your views which is exactly the same as we did in the EU. The UK people had no say and no voice while we were part of the EU, it was totally undemocratic that we were paying members of a Union that would not let us vote or participate in anything that could have effected us. They called the shots and we had no choice but to obey them, now that's what you call undemocratic, so why would we ever think of rejoining such a Union every again. Unless you are birdbrain Starmer, and his EU loving gravytrain who want cushy jobs within the EU when they've fucked up this country. The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999 Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. This is counting votes in the EU Council of Ministers, which passes most EU laws jointly with the European Parliament. Full fact. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:53:23 GMT
The UK people had no say and no voice while we were part of the EU, it was totally undemocratic that we were paying members of a Union that would not let us vote or participate in anything that could have effected us. They called the shots and we had no choice but to obey them, now that's what you call undemocratic, so why would we ever think of rejoining such a Union every again. Unless you are birdbrain Starmer, and his EU loving gravytrain who want cushy jobs within the EU when they've fucked up this country. Starmer & Co want to dismantle democracy and install themselves as a permanent elite, part of the one world government. And only idiots like Wonky think that's a good idea. Is that in the Labour manifesto? |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 14:56:13 GMT
If Starmer wishes to lead, he needs to show he can listen. So far he's not been very good in that respect. He said in 2016 he respected the referendum result. In 2017 promised 50 times no second in / out referendum. Then as soon as Labour had gained seats on a pro Brexit platform, reverted to his pro EU position called for a 2nd and betrayed the voters who thought he'd listened. Shadow Brexit secretary now leader of the opposition. I don't trust him. I take it that you voted to leave, as did I, I know I made a mistake but did you get what you wanted? You may not trust Starmer but did you trust Johnson, Farage, Gove.......... |
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Post by jonksy on May 30, 2023 15:00:03 GMT
If Starmer wishes to lead, he needs to show he can listen. So far he's not been very good in that respect. He said in 2016 he respected the referendum result. In 2017 promised 50 times no second in / out referendum. Then as soon as Labour had gained seats on a pro Brexit platform, reverted to his pro EU position called for a 2nd and betrayed the voters who thought he'd listened. Shadow Brexit secretary now leader of the opposition. I don't trust him. I take it that you voted to leave, as did I, I know I made a mistake but did you get what you wanted? You may not trust Starmer but did you trust Johnson, Farage, Gove.......... Pillock. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 30, 2023 15:02:15 GMT
If Starmer wishes to lead, he needs to show he can listen. So far he's not been very good in that respect. He said in 2016 he respected the referendum result. In 2017 promised 50 times no second in / out referendum. Then as soon as Labour had gained seats on a pro Brexit platform, reverted to his pro EU position called for a 2nd and betrayed the voters who thought he'd listened. Shadow Brexit secretary now leader of the opposition. I don't trust him. And you're right not to do so.
Starmer's a lefty laywer. He loves the ECHR and he hates the UK. He is fundamentally opposed to anything that may contribute to the wellbeing and proper functioning of this country.
His every instinct runs counter to common sense and decency. This will become increasingly obvious should he gain power. Meanwhile, he will promise anything that he believes will be popular but he has no intention of delivering on any of it.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 30, 2023 15:03:14 GMT
Starmer & Co want to dismantle democracy and install themselves as a permanent elite, part of the one world government. And only idiots like Wonky think that's a good idea. Is that in the Labour manifesto? **** |
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