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Post by see2 on May 8, 2023 11:26:02 GMT
You will need to learn there is a real world outside of your self-needy hard line political box before you will even begin to understand the word honest. I certainly do not accept your version of the truth about Starmer, neither would any other reasonable moderate individual who reads your posts. So you add another lie to your list of lies you have posted about myself, just confirming that you are a liar, but you really didn't need to prove it. Go and giggle in your box at your self entertainment, meanwhile I'll have a chuckle at another of your nonsense post  Thanks for the laugh. New you wouldnt disappoint though you are ever increasingly sounding like a stuck record. As a response all you deserve for that effort is for me to pull my jeans and underwear down and to moon at you. Sometimes actions do indeed speak louder than words. lol When replying to a lying stuck record LOL. Your stuck record isn't even free its stuck in an overly opinionated hard line political box where open mindedness and objectivity dare not enter. |
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Post by borchester on May 8, 2023 11:41:32 GMT
One thing I do suspect. In the event of a hung parliament the Lib Dems would try and insist upon a referendum on PR as a minimum condition. But Starmer and those around him surely know that the greatest thread to the establishment they are a part of and exist to defend is giving a democratic voice to those who oppose it from both left and right. They also surely know that under PR New Labourism would never again obtain a working majority. Shock horror, they might face a perpetual situation where they have to either cooperate with the left they so hate or expose their true colours by allying with the Tories for power. As they are already doing in Scotland in numerous places. So when the Lib Dems insist on a PR referendum Starmer might well refuse, and form a minority government that would fall within weeks if not days. So we could have another election within weeks of the first one, with Starmer hoping that Labour can gain a majority in another push. But even if they don't and the Tories got back in due to a negative public reaction, they would at least have defended the political and economic status quo. In essence I fear Starmer and co would rather see a Tory government than concede anything on PR. Labour and Tories are so politically close to each other now that I wouldn't even rule out a grand coalition between the two, which would be sold to us as a coming together for the good of the country, invoking the memory of the WW2 coalition in all likelihood. But in reality it will just be the establishment and their representatives protecting the status quo from us, the people. Starmer is so desperately eager for power at any cost that we might be tempted to think he'd agree to anything. But clearly he will not do anything the establishment wont accept, however popular, so he has a red line there. Maybe refusing PR is another one? After all the establishment would be more vulnerable to threats of change under PR, and other political players outside the establishments control might gain traction and representation. I am torn. If PR is the price of Lib Dem cooperation, would Starmer pay that price for power, knowing that never again would New Labourism get a majority? Or would he prefer to work with the Tories, or risk another election, to prevent it? I hope for the former but do fear the latter. Don't worry on it.
In the event of a hung parliament Starmer, realising the the Lib Dems are the oh, sod it and therefore the weaker party, will just demand another election. And once Labour (or anyone else for that matter ) has a clear majority, the libs can put their demands for PR where the sun does not shine  |
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 11:55:09 GMT
Thanks for the laugh. New you wouldnt disappoint though you are ever increasingly sounding like a stuck record. As a response all you deserve for that effort is for me to pull my jeans and underwear down and to moon at you. Sometimes actions do indeed speak louder than words. lol When replying to a lying stuck record LOL. Your stuck record isn't even free its stuck in an overly opinionated hard line political box where open mindedness and objectivity dare not enter.
srb steve has more intelligence honesty and integrity in his wee pinky than you or your mate starmer have between you.
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 12:01:49 GMT
One thing I do suspect. In the event of a hung parliament the Lib Dems would try and insist upon a referendum on PR as a minimum condition. But Starmer and those around him surely know that the greatest thread to the establishment they are a part of and exist to defend is giving a democratic voice to those who oppose it from both left and right. They also surely know that under PR New Labourism would never again obtain a working majority. Shock horror, they might face a perpetual situation where they have to either cooperate with the left they so hate or expose their true colours by allying with the Tories for power. As they are already doing in Scotland in numerous places. So when the Lib Dems insist on a PR referendum Starmer might well refuse, and form a minority government that would fall within weeks if not days. So we could have another election within weeks of the first one, with Starmer hoping that Labour can gain a majority in another push. But even if they don't and the Tories got back in due to a negative public reaction, they would at least have defended the political and economic status quo. In essence I fear Starmer and co would rather see a Tory government than concede anything on PR. Labour and Tories are so politically close to each other now that I wouldn't even rule out a grand coalition between the two, which would be sold to us as a coming together for the good of the country, invoking the memory of the WW2 coalition in all likelihood. But in reality it will just be the establishment and their representatives protecting the status quo from us, the people. Starmer is so desperately eager for power at any cost that we might be tempted to think he'd agree to anything. But clearly he will not do anything the establishment wont accept, however popular, so he has a red line there. Maybe refusing PR is another one? After all the establishment would be more vulnerable to threats of change under PR, and other political players outside the establishments control might gain traction and representation. I am torn. If PR is the price of Lib Dem cooperation, would Starmer pay that price for power, knowing that never again would New Labourism get a majority? Or would he prefer to work with the Tories, or risk another election, to prevent it? I hope for the former but do fear the latter. Don't worry on it.
i dont think anyone is worried about it borkie. We are just having a laugh with starmer and his mates like the nice but dim see 2 , making promises only the blind will see.
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Post by dodgydave on May 8, 2023 12:08:41 GMT
I've just been chatting to a friend who likes to use the old Brexit cliches (a) voting against your own interest (b) didn't know what you were voting for (c) conned by false arguments.
I ask him about the local elections and he said he voted Labour because the Tories have wrecked the economy, high inflation (and other national issues).
I then put it to him that he had voted:
(a) Against his own interest as the incumbent was well respected locally and does a good job, and he just voted for a young woke nutter with no experience.
(b) Didn't know what he was voting for as he had no clue what the Labour candidate stood for.
(c) Was conned by false arguments as local councilors can do nothing about the economy / inflation etc.
He then started talking about the football lol.
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 12:13:32 GMT
I've just been chatting to a friend who likes to use the old Brexit cliches (a) voting against your own interest (b) didn't know what you were voting for (c) conned by false arguments. I ask him about the local elections and he said he voted Labour because the Tories have wrecked the economy, high inflation (and other national issues). I then put it to him that he had voted: (a) Against his own interest as the incumbent was well respected locally and does a good job, and he just voted for a young woke nutter with no experience. (b) Didn't know what he was voting for as he had no clue what the Labour candidate stood for. (c) Was conned by false arguments as local councilors can do nothing about the economy / inflation etc. He then started talking about the football lol. Thats what labour rely on . blind party tribalism , my da voted labour so i will , tory bad ,in short nothing to offer except we arent the tories.
Im looking forward to starmers general election manifesto being eviscerated , when he has to cobble together policy , rather than empty soundbites , and climb down off that warm bench.
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Post by bancroft on May 8, 2023 17:01:35 GMT
No-one with any sense would vote for PR itself, there would need to be another referendum on the type of PR.
I like the German model yet this is never offered.
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Post by dodgydave on May 8, 2023 18:09:48 GMT
No-one with any sense would vote for PR itself, there would need to be another referendum on the type of PR. I like the German model yet this is never offered. When people demand PR they always point to when it works. They don't point to Spain or Italy where the coalitions breaks down every year, requiring fresh elections. Have you seen how many GEs / PMs Spain and Italy have, it's fucking crazy lol. Also, if you want to talk about Germany... Look what happened to Angela Merkel... her reputation is in tatters after one of the biggest political fuck ups in history. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2023 21:20:56 GMT
No-one with any sense would vote for PR itself, there would need to be another referendum on the type of PR. I like the German model yet this is never offered. When people demand PR they always point to when it works. They don't point to Spain or Italy where the coalitions breaks down every year, requiring fresh elections. Have you seen how many GEs / PMs Spain and Italy have, it's fucking crazy lol.
Also, if you want to talk about Germany... Look what happened to Angela Merkel... her reputation is in tatters after one of the biggest political fuck ups in history. Can you honestly say that the governance of Spain or Italy is significantly worse than the UK. How about Belgium where they went 2 years without a government - were they any worse off because of this? At least in those countries you have the opportunity for change - here it doesnt matter who wins, you still get New Labour policies. |
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Post by dodgydave on May 9, 2023 0:47:17 GMT
When people demand PR they always point to when it works. They don't point to Spain or Italy where the coalitions breaks down every year, requiring fresh elections. Have you seen how many GEs / PMs Spain and Italy have, it's fucking crazy lol.
Also, if you want to talk about Germany... Look what happened to Angela Merkel... her reputation is in tatters after one of the biggest political fuck ups in history. Can you honestly say that the governance of Spain or Italy is significantly worse than the UK. How about Belgium where they went 2 years without a government - were they any worse off because of this? At least in those countries you have the opportunity for change - here it doesnt matter who wins, you still get New Labour policies. What do you think is going to change with PR? Politics is restricted by the culture of it's voters, hence the narrow band they operate in. The UK public demand low taxes and the freedom to spend what they earn. We don't value public services, we value 2-3 holidays a year, nice cars, cheap alcohol, nice clothes... |
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2023 6:25:34 GMT
When replying to a lying stuck record LOL. Your stuck record isn't even free its stuck in an overly opinionated hard line political box where open mindedness and objectivity dare not enter.
srb steve has more intelligence honesty and integrity in his wee pinky than you or your mate starmer have between you.
The silliness of the pair of you is overwhelming. Starmer has not reneged on his policy he has just explained that the economy will determine when he can do it. You and the rest of the nasties should try growing up. It seems that Most Unions, UCU included, need to grow up as well. You have still not produced the evidence I asked for about your claim (which it appears was just the product of the mud slingers) that Starmer had said he would introduce tuition fees in Scotland. Shit and mud slingers like yourselves will grab at any loose straw floating about, it is the product of pure bias, not a single brain cell used in the process. |
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2023 6:37:30 GMT
I've just been chatting to a friend who likes to use the old Brexit cliches (a) voting against your own interest (b) didn't know what you were voting for (c) conned by false arguments. I ask him about the local elections and he said he voted Labour because the Tories have wrecked the economy, high inflation (and other national issues). I then put it to him that he had voted: (a) Against his own interest as the incumbent was well respected locally and does a good job, and he just voted for a young woke nutter with no experience. (b) Didn't know what he was voting for as he had no clue what the Labour candidate stood for. (c) Was conned by false arguments as local councilors can do nothing about the economy / inflation etc. He then started talking about the football lol. Better that than talking about your lack of understanding of human nature and your partially false opinionated argument. His vote sent a well earned message to the government, sadly about ten years late. But that is what tends to happen when the penny finally drops for some people. |
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Post by Toreador on May 9, 2023 6:41:51 GMT
I've just been chatting to a friend who likes to use the old Brexit cliches (a) voting against your own interest (b) didn't know what you were voting for (c) conned by false arguments. I ask him about the local elections and he said he voted Labour because the Tories have wrecked the economy, high inflation (and other national issues). I then put it to him that he had voted: (a) Against his own interest as the incumbent was well respected locally and does a good job, and he just voted for a young woke nutter with no experience. (b) Didn't know what he was voting for as he had no clue what the Labour candidate stood for. (c) Was conned by false arguments as local councilors can do nothing about the economy / inflation etc. He then started talking about the football lol. Better that than talking about your lack of understanding of human nature and your partially false opinionated argument. His vote sent a well earned message to the government, sadly about ten years late. But that is what tends to happen when the penny finally drops for some people. I think you got out of the wrong side of the bed or you slept on the sofa. |
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2023 6:47:26 GMT
Better that than talking about your lack of understanding of human nature and your partially false opinionated argument. His vote sent a well earned message to the government, sadly about ten years late. But that is what tends to happen when the penny finally drops for some people. I think you got out of the wrong side of the bed or you slept on the sofa. Are you suggesting that the many or most of the electorate, actually think for themselves before they cast their vote? |
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Post by thomas on May 9, 2023 6:53:55 GMT
srb steve has more intelligence honesty and integrity in his wee pinky than you or your mate starmer have between you.
The silliness of the pair of you is overwhelming. Starmer has not reneged on his policy he has just explained that the economy will determine when he can do it. You and the rest of the nasties should try growing up. It seems that Most Unions, UCU included, need to grow up as well. You have still not produced the evidence I asked for about your claim (which it appears was just the product of the mud slingers) that Starmer had said he would introduce tuition fees in Scotland. Shit and mud slingers like yourselves will grab at any loose straw floating about, it is the product of pure bias, not a single brain cell used in the process. by common agreement of most posters on this site , left right centre , you are by far the silliest poster on this site. With your zany comedy warped alternative reality views.
Clearly starmer made a cast iron commitment to abolishing tuition fees in England. Thats inarguable. Only a fool makes a cast iron uncosted commitment to a major policy then backtracks to public humiliation .
see this is why you are such a ridiculed poster on this site. Everyone from unions to plebs on internet forums that dont blindly follow everything starmer says like you need to shut up and trust someone who is conclusivly a compulsive liar. Its hilarious.
You wont win elections by insulting prospective voters , including your union backers , but you seem too dumb to understand that.
the evidence is there. The question is who is going to trust starmer.?
Lets look at what the polls are saying shall we?
5 months ago , due to starmers policy of sitting on his hands and keeeping quiet (as mandelson advised as mandelson knows starmer lammy and reeve are clowns) and the tory implosion under truss , labour were 37 points ahead.
When starmer reeve and lammy etc jump up and open their mouths , the public dont like the lies that they are seeing , and that soft lead has now dropped down to 12 points , with talks of a hung parliament , with just over a year to go to the next GE.
Dumping major pledges left right and centre on the run up to election time hardly screams government in waiting or a stable party that the public can trust their word.
Yet more evidence the public dont trust or believe a word starmer says. Takes years to build trust and seconds to break it , and once gone its gone for good. Only dimwits like you and labour dont understand that.
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