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Post by Bentley on May 2, 2023 13:38:16 GMT
The fact that communism repeatedly fails quickly might be a clue. The fact that it repeatedly turns into totalitarian dystopia might be another . Early-stage capitalism was a dystopia. Do you want a description of the living conditions endured by mill workers in Manchester during early capitalism? Do you want descriptions of the hangings under the Bloody Code? Or, descriptions of Indians tied to cannons and blown up to secure foreign markets for capitalism? Nasty stuff. What was going on in Russia during early-stage communism wasn't much better. Both were shit, Benny. Some on the left would argue that communism hasn't happened anywhere yet. Marx said it would and could only exist in an advanced industrial society. So, how could it have failed if it hasn't even existed? As I've already pointed out, he said that the industrial economies in the West would slowly turn towards socialism. Your mates on here who regularly complain that the Tories are now socialists would appear to bear him out. Marx was a populist in the sense that his socialist utopia would hold regular plebiscites. Can you point to a single country which you claim has experienced communism that held regular democratic plebiscites? If you can't, then you can't point to an example of Marxism. Marx said that a Marxist state was only possible in a country that had a long tradition of liberal democracy. I don't see that Russia or China had either an advanced industrial economy or a long tradition of liberal democracy. So, where has Marxism existed? And, once again, if it's never existed, how can it have failed? Verbiage. None of which refutes the points made. Communism fails every time , usually badly and sometimes disastrously. You are desperately trying to make excuses . Now it’s the old line that it wasn’t proper communism….sheesh🙄 |
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Post by Orac on May 2, 2023 13:40:13 GMT
Bear in mind that 'capitalism' as a distinct object in itself, was created by communists / socialists.
The word is a Jedi mind trick
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Post by Bentley on May 2, 2023 13:40:49 GMT
You can talk about anything you like I am asking is there a problem with treating people equally in law? There is nothing wrong with using the law as an instrument to achieve equality. Positive discrimination is an instrument for equality of outcome , not equality of opportunity. Lefties love equality of outcome because it reflects the utopia that they discussed in the college bar . |
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Post by Einhorn on May 2, 2023 13:42:35 GMT
Early-stage capitalism was a dystopia. Do you want a description of the living conditions endured by mill workers in Manchester during early capitalism? Do you want descriptions of the hangings under the Bloody Code? Or, descriptions of Indians tied to cannons and blown up to secure foreign markets for capitalism? Nasty stuff. What was going on in Russia during early-stage communism wasn't much better. Both were shit, Benny. Some on the left would argue that communism hasn't happened anywhere yet. Marx said it would and could only exist in an advanced industrial society. So, how could it have failed if it hasn't even existed? As I've already pointed out, he said that the industrial economies in the West would slowly turn towards socialism. Your mates on here who regularly complain that the Tories are now socialists would appear to bear him out. Marx was a populist in the sense that his socialist utopia would hold regular plebiscites. Can you point to a single country which you claim has experienced communism that held regular democratic plebiscites? If you can't, then you can't point to an example of Marxism. Marx said that a Marxist state was only possible in a country that had a long tradition of liberal democracy. I don't see that Russia or China had either an advanced industrial economy or a long tradition of liberal democracy. So, where has Marxism existed? And, once again, if it's never existed, how can it have failed? You are desperately trying to make excuses . Now it’s the old line that it wasn’t proper communism….sheesh🙄 Whatever you say, Benny. Marx himself said that communism would only work in a society that had an advanced industrial economy and a long tradition of liberal democracy. Neither Russia nor China had. Marx was proved right when he said it wouldn't work if those conditions weren't satisfied. He also said that that Western capitalism would slowly turn more and more socialist. Compare the society of his day with modernity, and you will see that he was right about that, too. |
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Post by Montegriffo on May 2, 2023 13:46:20 GMT
Wow! I had no idea you lot would take being called gammons so bad.  |
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Post by Bentley on May 2, 2023 13:49:36 GMT
You are desperately trying to make excuses . Now it’s the old line that it wasn’t proper communism….sheesh🙄 Whatever you say, Benny. Marx himself said that communism would only work in a society that had an advanced industrial economy and a long tradition of liberal democracy. Neither Russia nor China had. Marx was proved right when he said it wouldn't work if those conditions weren't satisfied. He also said that that Western capitalism would slowly turn more and more socialist. Compare the society of his day with modernity, and you will see that he was right about that, too. He wasn’t proved right. He would only be proved right if there was an example where communism succeeded. There isn’t one. I have a dragon in my garage but only those of pure heart can see it . The fact that no one has seen it can proves that no one who tried has a pure heart . See I can do that 😁 |
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Post by Montegriffo on May 2, 2023 13:50:37 GMT
Whatever you say, Benny. Marx himself said that communism would only work in a society that had an advanced industrial economy and a long tradition of liberal democracy. Neither Russia nor China had. Marx was proved right when he said it wouldn't work if those conditions weren't satisfied. He also said that that Western capitalism would slowly turn more and more socialist. Compare the society of his day with modernity, and you will see that he was right about that, too. He wasn’t proved right. He would only be proved right if there was an example where communism succeeded. There isn’t one. I have a dragon in my garage but only those of pure heart can see it . The fact that no one has seen it can proves that no one who tried has a pure heart . See I can do that 😁 I can see it and his litter tray needs changing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2023 13:56:00 GMT
Monte - pointing out your shameless hypocrisy when it comes down to racial stereotypes is not really an objection. It's more of an exposure.
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Post by Einhorn on May 2, 2023 14:00:33 GMT
Whatever you say, Benny. Marx himself said that communism would only work in a society that had an advanced industrial economy and a long tradition of liberal democracy. Neither Russia nor China had. Marx was proved right when he said it wouldn't work if those conditions weren't satisfied. He also said that that Western capitalism would slowly turn more and more socialist. Compare the society of his day with modernity, and you will see that he was right about that, too. He wasn’t proved right. He would only be proved right if there was an example where communism succeeded. There isn’t one. I have a dragon in my garage but only those of pure heart can see it . The fact that no one has seen it can proves that no one who tried has a pure heart . See I can do that 😁 I don't see where you disagree with Marx, Benny. He said that communism would only succeed if the country in which it is sought to be established has a long tradition of liberal democracy and an advanced industrial economy. You've pointed out that attempts to establish communism in countries where those conditions didn't exist failed. You're pretty much giving Marx a big correct mark. I assume that you would also agree that conditions for ordinary people have greatly improved since Marx's day. In that case, you must also agree that his prediction that capitalism would become more and more socialist over time was correct. What's all the fuss about? You agree with Marx. |
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Post by Bentley on May 2, 2023 14:05:34 GMT
He wasn’t proved right. He would only be proved right if there was an example where communism succeeded. There isn’t one. I have a dragon in my garage but only those of pure heart can see it . The fact that no one has seen it can proves that no one who tried has a pure heart . See I can do that 😁 I don't see where you disagree with Marx, Benny. He said that communism would only succeed if the country in which it is sought to be established has a long tradition of liberal democracy and an advanced industrial economy. You've pointed out that attempts to establish communism in countries where those conditions didn't exist failed. You're pretty much giving Marx a big correct mark. I assume that you would also agree that conditions for ordinary people have greatly improved since Marx's day. In that case, you must also agree that his prediction that capitalism would become more and more socialist over time was correct. What's all the fuss about? You agree with Marx. You need to read my post properly or stop telling porkies . Marx cannot be proved right of there is no examples to refer to. The only examples of communism are ones who failed , failed badly or failed disastrously. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 2, 2023 14:08:13 GMT
I don't see where you disagree with Marx, Benny. He said that communism would only succeed if the country in which it is sought to be established has a long tradition of liberal democracy and an advanced industrial economy. You've pointed out that attempts to establish communism in countries where those conditions didn't exist failed. You're pretty much giving Marx a big correct mark. I assume that you would also agree that conditions for ordinary people have greatly improved since Marx's day. In that case, you must also agree that his prediction that capitalism would become more and more socialist over time was correct. What's all the fuss about? You agree with Marx. You need to read my post properly or stop telling porkies . Marx cannot be proved right of there is no examples to refer to. The only examples of communism are ones who failed , failed badly or failed disastrously. Marx predicted that communism would fail if the conditions I mentioned weren't satisfied. How is what happened in Russia not an example of how he was right? Marx also predicted that capitalism would become more socialist over time. How does a comparison of modern working and living conditions with those that existed in his day not prove him right? |
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Post by Montegriffo on May 2, 2023 14:09:25 GMT
Monte - pointing out your shameless hypocrisy when it comes down to racial stereotypes is not really an objection. It's more of an exposure. Are you saying people with darker skin can't go red in the face? How about the Chinese or indigenous Americans? I hate to piss on your victim complex but gammon refers to people getting outraged and going red in the face. Just like you are doing now. Not everything is about race. |
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Post by Bentley on May 2, 2023 14:14:09 GMT
You need to read my post properly or stop telling porkies . Marx cannot be proved right of there is no examples to refer to. The only examples of communism are ones who failed , failed badly or failed disastrously. Marx predicted that communism would fail if the conditions I mentioned weren't satisfied. How they are not examples that he was right? Marx also predicted that capitalism would become more socialist over time. How does a comparison of modern working and living conditions with those that existed in his day not prove him right? Marx predicting the failure of communism if his conditions are not met does not prove the success of communism if his conditions are met. You need an example of communism that succeeded under his conditions . I keep telling you this darling . Examples of capitalist countries who is gravitating towards socialism ie political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 2, 2023 14:15:59 GMT
Marx predicted that communism would fail if the conditions I mentioned weren't satisfied. How they are not examples that he was right? Marx also predicted that capitalism would become more socialist over time. How does a comparison of modern working and living conditions with those that existed in his day not prove him right? Marx predicting the failure of communism if his conditions are not met does not prove the success of communism if his conditions are met. You need an example of communism that succeeded under his conditions . I keep telling you this darling . Examples of capitalist countries who is gravitating towards socialism ie political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.? Marx: Build a house on a solid foundation. Russia: We built a house in the middle of a swamp. It flooded and almost sunk from view. Gammons: Ha! Ha! Marx’s plan failed!!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2023 14:17:36 GMT
Monte - pointing out your shameless hypocrisy when it comes down to racial stereotypes is not really an objection. It's more of an exposure. Are you saying people with darker skin can't go red in the face? How about the Chinese or indigenous Americans? I hate to piss on your victim complex but gammon refers to people getting outraged and going red in the face. Just like you are doing now. Not everything is about race. I don't believe that, but that's OK, because I don't have to respect you either. |
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