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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 15, 2023 1:54:40 GMT
The company I used to work for was owned by the French. But you wouldn't know it at ground level. For whatever reason when IP (International Power) was bought by GDF Suez nothing on the surface changed. It was as if no one was supposed to notice. But less than subtle changes were in the pipeline. It was a bit like joining the EU, no one realised what was happening behind the scenes.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 15, 2023 6:43:00 GMT
Whilst in theory you are right, I suspect that giving it to everyone is cheaper and quicker than trying to means test everyone. Be pretty easy to eliminate those paying 40% tax though. More importantly it would be good o set up a measure that can be used for all future public help. Fact is the population in this country don't want to share the wealth. |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 15, 2023 7:36:50 GMT
Whilst in theory you are right, I suspect that giving it to everyone is cheaper and quicker than trying to means test everyone. Be pretty easy to eliminate those paying 40% tax though. More importantly it would be good o set up a measure that can be used for all future public help. Fact is the population in this country don't want to share the wealth. Actually the fact is the wealth as always is in the hands of a very few, who mean to keep it that way. Which is fine as long as the system works, which it obviously doesn't. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 15, 2023 7:52:21 GMT
Be pretty easy to eliminate those paying 40% tax though. More importantly it would be good o set up a measure that can be used for all future public help. Fact is the population in this country don't want to share the wealth. Actually the fact is the wealth as always is in the hands of a very few, who mean to keep it that way. Which is fine as long as the system works, which it obviously doesn't. Its the balance that's gone wrong. No civilised country should have some people unable to live a basic life while others have a thousand stacks of a million pounds. Its not right and its not necessary. You can be delightfully rich without having more than you can possibly ever spend. |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 15, 2023 8:18:45 GMT
Actually the fact is the wealth as always is in the hands of a very few, who mean to keep it that way. Which is fine as long as the system works, which it obviously doesn't. Its the balance that's gone wrong. No civilised country should have some people unable to live a basic life while others have a thousand stacks of a million pounds. Its not right and its not necessary. You can be delightfully rich without having more than you can possibly ever spend. When money was a tool things were different, now it has become the political weapon of choice things have gone down hill fast. In my humble opinion of course. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 15, 2023 8:35:32 GMT
That is what the French pay higher taxes for. Cheaper prices at the point of use. It means poorer people can pay less for the necessities such as transport, services and utilities and enjoy the same benefits. It is how they choose to live. A matter of democratic and cultural choice. It seems the UK prefers that the poorer live in freezing homes, use food banks and cant afford to travel by train. Simply a matter of choice. By the way it has nothing to do with Brexit. It has been this way for many years. No, like I just stated it is a mirage. It looks cheap then they have a tax burden way way above ours. Did the Yellow Vest protests pass you by? They have been protesting about the cost of living way before COVID. Have you travelled around France much? All their big towns and cities have areas of obvious poverty... just like the UK. When you look at the data, average wages are higher in the UK and we pay less tax... and are unemployment rate is considerably lower. As i said earlier, it is a matter of democratic choice and will. France has reserves for times of crisis. It chooses to have it so.of course there are areas of poverty as in every town and city in the world. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 15, 2023 8:36:34 GMT
The company I used to work for was owned by the French. But you wouldn't know it at ground level. For whatever reason when IP (International Power) was bought by GDF Suez nothing on the surface changed. It was as if no one was supposed to notice. But less than subtle changes were in the pipeline. It was a bit like joining the EU, no one realised what was happening behind the scenes. So were there any disastrous consequences? |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 15, 2023 8:37:10 GMT
On another note, I did notice since we mentioned the high street and its dire state reporters have decided they should check it out, which is only about 20 years after the fact, not such a pretty picture is it?
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 15, 2023 8:51:48 GMT
Whilst in theory you are right, I suspect that giving it to everyone is cheaper and quicker than trying to means test everyone. Be pretty easy to eliminate those paying 40% tax though. Not really. The first energy rebate was paid out via council tax departments, who don't have access to income tax details (as it's irrelevant for collection of ctax). They did try to "means test" it in a way by restricting it to bands A-D, but it was a bit of a disaster and ended up sucking a lot of resources from elsewhere in the council and ended up taking months extra! It also excluded the poorest in society living in hmos as they are not liable for council tax, but rather the landlord is. The second energy rebate was a grant given to the energy companies to apply to customer's bills. At the point of the grant the government would not know how many higher rate tax payers there were with each power company, and the power companies themselves wouldn't know how much tax you pay, as it's irrelevant for power bills. The only way that you could quickly and cheaply get higher rate tax payers excluded would be to have the scheme managed by HMRC. You could even do it by raising the tax free allowance, but this would then end up being paid to adults not responsible for gas and electric bills. It's not as easy as you think. More importantly it would be good o set up a measure that can be used for all future public help. Fact is the population in this country don't want to share the wealth. I agree with you there. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 15, 2023 9:00:05 GMT
Whilst in theory you are right, I suspect that giving it to everyone is cheaper and quicker than trying to means test everyone. Be pretty easy to eliminate those paying 40% tax though. This stirs a thought. Why not make the first X amount of Kwh's free. The rich surely use more power than the poor and the poor would be more willing to cut back. Or we could tax properly in the first place and have the funds to help the poor. It's not as easy as you think. More importantly it would be good o set up a measure that can be used for all future public help. Fact is the population in this country don't want to share the wealth. I agree with you there. Off out for the weekend now. Laters everyone. |
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