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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 16:39:59 GMT
I don't think wokeness is a restraint created by budget - in fact, almost quite the opposite, it is a form of corruption and so reduces effective budget. A major piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the present situation is how the public has been convinced they have no say and so should shut up. The public need to re-assert dominance - ie if you waste our resources on this, we will sack you and then fine you personally for the calculated waste.Bang on the nail. YOU don't want wokeness by YOUR definition of what that is. Never mind what anyone else wants. And of course what YOU want IS what everyone else wants And that's why we have representative democracy. I think everyone wants the police to deal with real crime, violence, rape, murder, theft, fraud and burglary. Not deal with crime that is not real crime or adopt stances. If a pride march is legal it should be policed as any other march/demonstration. It is not the position or the duty of the police to show support for any pressure group. Looking back at some of the Thatcher newscasts the police in these looked clean, tidy, smart and workmanlike. |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 25, 2023 16:53:53 GMT
Bang on the nail. YOU don't want wokeness by YOUR definition of what that is. Never mind what anyone else wants. And of course what YOU want IS what everyone else wants And that's why we have representative democracy. Not deal with crime that is not real crime or adopt stances. If a pride march is legal it should be policed as any other march/demonstration. It is not the position or the duty of the police to show support for any pressure group. Looking back at some of the Thatcher newscasts the police in these looked clean, tidy, smart and workmanlike. absolutely true... but the Government does. They do this by imposing laws on society for which the police become responsible for...I mean what would you think if it become law that all restaurants must have 25% of all meals as vegan...would you count that as a real crime if restaurants didn't follow it?I mean it became a law that people couldn't smoke in restaurants...so the erosion of free will and choice is nothing new?
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 16:55:48 GMT
There's the rub. Nobody wants to pay, everybody wants the bit they want and cut the rest. I think you are missing what I'm saying. People are paying, but their money is being filtered away in managerial / political corruption to do something other than police crime. Yep that was your point. That you don't like where its being spent so it must be corruption. If that's not what you meant, list this corruption and say how much is being spent on it. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 17:29:56 GMT
I think everyone wants the police to deal with real crime, violence, rape, murder, theft, fraud and burglary. Not deal with crime that is not real crime or adopt stances. If a pride march is legal it should be policed as any other march/demonstration. It is not the position or the duty of the police to show support for any pressure group. Looking back at some of the Thatcher newscasts the police in these looked clean, tidy, smart and workmanlike. absolutely true... but the Government does. They do this by imposing laws on society for which the police become responsible for...I mean what would you think if it become law that all restaurants must have 25% of all meals as vegan...would you count that as a real crime if restaurants didn't follow it?I mean it became a law that people couldn't smoke in restaurants...so the erosion of free will and choice is nothing new?
The private citizen is only liable for that which is lawful or unlawful. If he smokes in a restaurant he can be asked to leave, if he does not leave he can be forcibly ejected, if he is too strong the police can be called to remove him. The law is slightly different in that it normally defines that which you cannot do, moving into things that you must do is of course a whole new ball game and that is where the edifice of law and order is crumbling as too many laws are in force to keep society working, at all, let alone effectively. A restaurant that must cater to a vegan menu by a specified amount could be the subject of a licence to trade and there will be inspectors for that. Like hygiene. These are not police matters just as hurt feelings should not be police matters or name calling is not a police matter unless it results, or threatens to result, in a breach of the peace. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 17:35:28 GMT
Bang on the nail. YOU don't want wokeness by YOUR definition of what that is. Never mind what anyone else wants. And of course what YOU want IS what everyone else wants And that's why we have representative democracy. It isn't really a matter of democracy when looked from this angle. The public as a group is, at the end of the day, the employer. Imagine if you hired a plumber and left him to manage resources to 'fix up' and maintain your plumbing. You realise some time later that your plumbing is getting worse and, when you investigate, you discover that he will only source his plumbing parts from white nationalist plumbing suppliers, and so all the jobs he needs to do are proceeding extremely slowly as a result. You investigate further and discover that some significant section of the remaining plumbing resources are being redirected into painting swastikas on his fleet of vans - in fact, he has used your plumbing money to hire a whole team of 'professional swastika painters' to paint his fleet of vans and cars. Of course, if you are Nazi and sharing this bill with neighbours, it is quite possible you will be as happy as Larry that others are funding the promotion of your political positions in lieu of plumbing (you might think that's a worthy trade-off). However, everyone else is going to feel cheated The references to Nazi Germany make this impossible to address as they are objectionable to EVERYONE. However if I found my plumber was using my money to put Spice girl vinyl's on their vans I would be furious. If I then found that actually someone else wanted the vinyl's and they paid for them I would be fine. So we are back to YOU don't want ANYBODY's money spent on things YOU don't like. Because its not just your money is it. |
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Post by wapentake on Mar 25, 2023 17:39:37 GMT
We can have as much policing as we can afford. The trouble is as a country we can't afford that much... so what we have got needs to be managed so it's failings don't become election losing issues...since diversity and woke culture, and that wank, are the political buzz words of the moment, that's going to be one of the main points of focus of the message management. My point being is that if all we are going to get is the best policing we can afford then we may as well make sure that those officers we do get aren't being constantly blasted with blanket condemnations of being institutionally (whatever the fuck that means) racist which they are not....anyway.... I can't see why the public can't have whatever it wants (within the constraints of what is feasible within budget). If the public massively prioritises dealing with crime (and they do) then the management can be disciplined / removed for wasting public resources prioritising something else. The woke thing should be viewed as a corruption issue Therein lies the problem trying to do too much with too little.
The UK can still play its part in the wider world and at home if it's accepted that we are not what we were.
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Post by Orac on Mar 25, 2023 17:43:51 GMT
I think you are missing what I'm saying. People are paying, but their money is being filtered away in managerial / political corruption to do something other than police crime. Yep that was your point. That you don't like where its being spent so it must be corruption. No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. |
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Post by patman post on Mar 25, 2023 19:45:33 GMT
Yep that was your point. That you don't like where its being spent so it must be corruption. No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. The Metropolitan Police Mission Statement is to keep London safe for everyone. By focusing on the following this is how they wish to achieve this statement of intent . 1. Focusing on what matters most to Londoners. 2. Working more closely with partners and the public. 3. Achieve the best outcomes in the pursuit of justice and in the support of victims. By doing this, the Metropolitan Police want to lead 21st century policing by: 4. Seizing the opportunities of data and digital technology. 5. Care for each other, work as a team and be an attractive place to work. 6. Learn from experience, from others, and constantly strive to improve. 7. Be recognised as a responsible, exemplary and ethical organisation. Ultimately, the vision for the Met is to be the most trusted police service in the world and by having a policing plan that is interchangeable I am sure this can be achieved. www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/vision-and-values/I’m sad for the decent cops, but their inaction in the face of the perversion of their colleagues the latest report broadcast has brought about the general public condemnation. Split the force in two and put the gung ho Dirty Harry gun carrying cops in a separate corps and under strict control… |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 19:45:33 GMT
Yep that was your point. That you don't like where its being spent so it must be corruption. No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. How do you know the public only want the police to tackle crime, have you asked everyone? People want the police to deal with very many things, everything from neighbours to racism to the mentally ill. So what are these political positions the police are being forced to take. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 20:05:42 GMT
No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. How do you know the public only want the police to tackle crime, have you asked everyone? People want the police to deal with very many things, everything from neighbours to racism to the mentally ill. So what are these political positions the police are being forced to take. So, you want the police acting as social services and a political force to punish thought crime, whilst claiming that it's what the majority of people want. It's no wonder the police are being used to punish children with backdoor Islam exclusive blasphemy laws.
In the real world it's highly doubtful that the British people want to live under a totalitarian state. You can usually tell by how they vote, even if the establishment is totally corrupt and only lies to the people for votes.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 20:31:55 GMT
How do you know the public only want the police to tackle crime, have you asked everyone? People want the police to deal with very many things, everything from neighbours to racism to the mentally ill. So what are these political positions the police are being forced to take. So, you want the police acting as social services and a political force to punish thought crime, whilst claiming that it's what the majority of people want. It's no wonder the police are being used to punish children with backdoor Islam exclusive blasphemy laws.
In the real world it's highly doubtful that the British people want to live under a totalitarian state. You can usually tell by how they vote, even if the establishment is totally corrupt and only lies to the people for votes.
I didn't ask you or Mags what I wanted the police to do. I am also a lone voice representing only my views. Other people want other things and that's the point. And your words chosen to be emotive lose their power for that very reason. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Mar 25, 2023 20:51:05 GMT
How do you know the public only want the police to tackle crime... Irrelevant, since that's the remit of the police. The commissioner has been quite clear about that and his desire to push back against other agencies where the police are picking up the slack for their failings. Indeed, the law is being changed as we speak to reduce the role of the police in dealing with mental health issues. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 25, 2023 21:10:22 GMT
No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. The Metropolitan Police Mission Statement is to keep London safe for everyone. By focusing on the following this is how they wish to achieve this statement of intent . 1. Focusing on what matters most to Londoners. 2. Working more closely with partners and the public. 3. Achieve the best outcomes in the pursuit of justice and in the support of victims. By doing this, the Metropolitan Police want to lead 21st century policing by: 4. Seizing the opportunities of data and digital technology. 5. Care for each other, work as a team and be an attractive place to work. 6. Learn from experience, from others, and constantly strive to improve. 7. Be recognised as a responsible, exemplary and ethical organisation. Ultimately, the vision for the Met is to be the most trusted police service in the world and by having a policing plan that is interchangeable I am sure this can be achieved. www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/vision-and-values/I’m sad for the decent cops, but their inaction in the face of the perversion of their colleagues the latest report broadcast has brought about the general public condemnation. Split the force in two and put the gung ho Dirty Harry gun carrying cops in a separate corps and under strict control… Can you see anything missing from that list? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 26, 2023 7:10:29 GMT
How do you know the public only want the police to tackle crime... Irrelevant, since that's the remit of the police. The commissioner has been quite clear about that and his desire to push back against other agencies where the police are picking up the slack for their failings. Indeed, the law is being changed as we speak to reduce the role of the police in dealing with mental health issues. Irrelevant to the conversation. You are suggesting these roles should be carried out by other government agencies. Mags doesn't want to pay any government agency to carry out these tasks. Now I don't want the police to waste my tax pulling people out of trees they've climbed. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 26, 2023 9:05:42 GMT
No. You miss my point entirely. The police force is there only to tackle crime. The public has only agreed to pay money for the police to do that. Using those resources to do something else instead is therefore corruption. Using public money, earmarked to deal with crime, to instead promote your political positions, is corruption. So what are these political positions the police are being forced to take. ie ' wokeness' / demographic targets/ painting political symbols on police cars etc. See my analogy |
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