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Post by thescotsman on Mar 25, 2023 10:08:09 GMT
We can have as much policing as we can afford. The trouble is as a country we can't afford that much... so what we have got needs to be managed so it's failings don't become election losing issues...since diversity and woke culture, and that wank, are the political buzz words of the moment, that's going to be one of the main points of focus of the message management. My point being is that if all we are going to get is the best policing we can afford then we may as well make sure that those officers we do get aren't being constantly blasted with blanket condemnations of being institutionally (whatever the fuck that means) racist which they are not....anyway.... . If the public massively prioritises dealing with crime (and they do) then the management can be disciplined / removed for wasting public resources prioritising something else. The woke thing should be viewed as a corruption issue ..you've asked and answered your own question in the same sentence..... 
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Post by Orac on Mar 25, 2023 10:58:00 GMT
I can't see why the public can't have whatever it wants (within the constraints of what is feasible within budget). If the public massively prioritises dealing with crime (and they do) then the management can be disciplined / removed for wasting public resources prioritising something else. The woke thing should be viewed as a corruption issue ..you've asked and answered your own question in the same sentence.....
I don't think wokeness is a restraint created by budget - in fact, almost quite the opposite, it is a form of corruption and so reduces effective budget. A major piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the present situation is how the public has been convinced they have no say and so should shut up. The public need to re-assert dominance - ie if you waste our resources on this, we will sack you and then fine you personally for the calculated waste. |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 25, 2023 12:54:20 GMT
..you've asked and answered your own question in the same sentence.....
I don't think wokeness is a restraint created by budget - in fact, almost quite the opposite, it is a form of corruption and so reduces effective budget. A major piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the present situation is how the public has been convinced they have no say and so should shut up. The public need to re-assert dominance - ie if you waste our resources on this, we will sack you and then fine you personally for the calculated waste.
on your point about Jigsaws...personally I think the major piece of the jigsaw is that people have been convinced by what those most invested in undermining certain institutions (including the police) want them to be convinced of. I wonder if you did a poll how many people believe the Met is institutionally racist.....likewise how many people believe a Minister for net zero is going to save the world....wokeness is a constraint on budget!
I think like you we're both feeling our way through this topic by exploring the various avenues and dead-ends. Personally I'm exploring this concept of whereby you accept a premise (even though your think it false) but use the agenda and manipulate it and change it to your advantage rather than hammering at it. If you accept a situation it becomes easier to deal with. Simply speaking, wokeness is here to stay for a while so whilst not agreeing with it one can make use of it.
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Post by Orac on Mar 25, 2023 13:17:42 GMT
on your point about Jigsaws...personally I think the major piece of the jigsaw is that people have been convinced by what those most invested in undermining certain institutions (including the police) want them to be convinced of. I wonder if you did a poll how many people believe the Met is institutionally racist.....likewise how many people believe a Minister for net zero is going to save the world....wokeness is a constraint on budget! Arguing this would take us into an enormous detour - the actual support for these fully fleshed out notions ub the public is very weak indeed, but the true situation masked by semantic games. For instance, most UK people would say racism is bad but the meaning of the statement is vague because the key word in the statement has such variable and manipulated meaning. A lot of the cultural noise is vacuous semantic ritual and children playing games, which is then amplified by the media. What is happening presently has little to do with any popular pressure. My notion was that wokeness is not the result of budget restraint (lack of resources). The two are unrelated. I think like you we're both feeling our way through this topic by exploring the various avenues and dead-ends. Personally I'm exploring this concept of whereby you accept a premise (even though your think it false) but use the agenda and manipulate it and change it to your advantage rather than hammering at it. If you accept a situation it becomes easier to deal with. Simply speaking, wokeness is here to stay for a while so whilst not agreeing with it one can make use of it. This would be very dishonest of me. I think the wokeness is being forced on populations by top down raw power and is potentially civilisation ending. |
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Post by patman post on Mar 25, 2023 14:15:17 GMT
According to a survey conducted in 28 countries in 2022, trust in the police is the highest in Denmark, the Netherlands, and in Sweden. In 2022, some 58 percent of respondents in Denmark and the Netherlands defined the police as trustworthy, while the share of respondents stating the same in Sweden was 55 percent. www.statista.com/statistics/1274278/trust-in-police-worldwide-by-country/The survey placed GB ninth where trust didn't reach 44%... |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 25, 2023 14:32:26 GMT
on your point about Jigsaws...personally I think the major piece of the jigsaw is that people have been convinced by what those most invested in undermining certain institutions (including the police) want them to be convinced of. I wonder if you did a poll how many people believe the Met is institutionally racist.....likewise how many people believe a Minister for net zero is going to save the world....wokeness is a constraint on budget! My notion was that wokeness is not the result of budget restraint (lack of resources). The two are unrelated. sure...I agree.... the constraints come from the fact we don't as a country have the money to do or have everything we want! In fact our institutions are sinking in a morass of under funding and under achievement and under delivery...if we wanted good policing what to we get rid of? How much more tax can we as a country pay before we become merely indentured workers of the state? How much more debt can we raise?
So, what I was (admittedly rather clumsily) trying to allude to was that on top of all this under funding we're allocating resources into policies and commissions and studies and laws based on the nebulous concepts of a minority imposed agenda of the diversity, gender, equality and climate activists. Probably a tad over the top but you see my drift. I would further venture (in the vein of being over the top) but would further venture that these are not something that should be within the orbit of Government....which is as you say way off what this discussion is about...but...shit...so what I'm on a voyage of discovery... |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 25, 2023 15:09:06 GMT
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 15:20:06 GMT
We can have as much policing as we can afford. The trouble is as a country we can't afford that much... so what we have got needs to be managed so it's failings don't become election losing issues...since diversity and woke culture, and that wank, are the political buzz words of the moment, that's going to be one of the main points of focus of the message management. My point being is that if all we are going to get is the best policing we can afford then we may as well make sure that those officers we do get aren't being constantly blasted with blanket condemnations of being institutionally (whatever the fuck that means) racist which they are not....anyway.... I can't see why the public can't have whatever it wants ( within the constraints of what is feasible within budget). If the public massively prioritises dealing with crime (and they do) then the management can be disciplined / removed for wasting public resources prioritising something else. The woke thing should be viewed as a corruption issue There's the rub. Nobody wants to pay, everybody wants the bit they want and cut the rest. All she wants is.. All she wants. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 25, 2023 15:22:47 GMT
..you've asked and answered your own question in the same sentence.....
I don't think wokeness is a restraint created by budget - in fact, almost quite the opposite, it is a form of corruption and so reduces effective budget. A major piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the present situation is how the public has been convinced they have no say and so should shut up. The public need to re-assert dominance - ie if you waste our resources on this, we will sack you and then fine you personally for the calculated waste.Bang on the nail. YOU don't want wokeness by YOUR definition of what that is. Never mind what anyone else wants. And of course what YOU want IS what everyone else wants And that's why we have representative democracy. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 25, 2023 16:03:19 GMT
I can't see why the public can't have whatever it wants ( within the constraints of what is feasible within budget). If the public massively prioritises dealing with crime (and they do) then the management can be disciplined / removed for wasting public resources prioritising something else. The woke thing should be viewed as a corruption issue There's the rub. Nobody wants to pay, everybody wants the bit they want and cut the rest. I think you are missing what I'm saying. People are paying, but their money is being filtered away in managerial / political corruption to do something other than police crime. |
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Post by Handyman on Mar 25, 2023 16:08:41 GMT
This is not new we have had Private Security for years , close to me the residents of a very exclusive area of high cost homes have paid to have regular security guards to patrol their streets and respond to Burglar Alarms for about 30 years at least, in parts of Hendon Finchley Golders Green, and Stamford Hill the Jewish Community pay for a Uniformed Security Patrol 24/7 to protect their businesses, homes, from Anti Sematic Morons , and burglars, again has been in place for a long time. There are also two private walled estates with a full time security officer on the entrance to the estate and full CCTV very near to us as well Reason being they know the Police do not have the resources to deal with everything they are expected to do |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 25, 2023 16:09:59 GMT
According to a survey conducted in 28 countries in 2022, trust in the police is the highest in Denmark, the Netherlands, and in Sweden. In 2022, some 58 percent of respondents in Denmark and the Netherlands defined the police as trustworthy, while the share of respondents stating the same in Sweden was 55 percent.www.statista.com/statistics/1274278/trust-in-police-worldwide-by-country/The survey placed GB ninth where trust didn't reach 44%... Rather poor support. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 25, 2023 16:13:00 GMT
This is not new we have had Private Security for years , close to me the residents of a very exclusive area of high cost homes have paid to have regular security guards to patrol their streets and respond to Burglar Alarms for about 30 years at least, in parts of Hendon Finchley Golders Green, and Stamford Hill the Jewish Community pay for a Uniformed Security Patrol 24/7 to protect their businesses, homes, from Anti Sematic Morons , and burglars, again has been in place for a long time. There are also two private walled estates with a full time security officer on the entrance to the estate and full CCTV very near to us as well Reason being they know the Police do not have the resources to deal with everything they are expected to do I'd wager thoser private cops have far less paperwork to complete. Whether it's police, NHS, fire brigade, they're all snowed under with paperwork. |
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Post by Handyman on Mar 25, 2023 16:19:01 GMT
Of course all they will have to do is show when and where they patrolled, if all was OK or if they find something untoward call the Police to deal with it, if a burglar alarm trips for any reason they will check the house for any sign of a break-in they will have the owners details to contact them ASAP
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Post by Orac on Mar 25, 2023 16:25:30 GMT
I don't think wokeness is a restraint created by budget - in fact, almost quite the opposite, it is a form of corruption and so reduces effective budget. A major piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the present situation is how the public has been convinced they have no say and so should shut up. The public need to re-assert dominance - ie if you waste our resources on this, we will sack you and then fine you personally for the calculated waste.Bang on the nail. YOU don't want wokeness by YOUR definition of what that is. Never mind what anyone else wants. And of course what YOU want IS what everyone else wants And that's why we have representative democracy. It isn't really a matter of democracy when looked from this angle. The public as a group is, at the end of the day, the employer. Imagine if you hired a plumber and left him to manage resources to 'fix up' and maintain your plumbing. You realise some time later that your plumbing is getting worse and, when you investigate, you discover that he will only source his plumbing parts from white nationalist plumbing suppliers, and so all the jobs he needs to do are proceeding extremely slowly as a result. You investigate further and discover that some significant section of the remaining plumbing resources are being redirected into painting swastikas on his fleet of vans - in fact, he has used your plumbing money to hire a whole team of 'professional swastika painters' to paint his fleet of vans and cars. Of course, if you are Nazi and sharing this bill with neighbours, it is quite possible you will be as happy as Larry that others are funding the promotion of your political positions in lieu of plumbing (you might think that's a worthy trade-off). However, everyone else is going to feel cheated |
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