|
Post by Vinny on Feb 17, 2023 14:42:15 GMT
The global economy is teetering on the brink of recession, we've gone through a global pandemic and there's a major war in Europe between two extremely important suppliers to the world market.
If we'd stayed in the EU things would still be extremely shit. But, faith in our politicians would have gone completely if our vote to leave had been betrayed as some on here wanted.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Feb 17, 2023 21:08:28 GMT
You can't just ignore the difference between the words theory and hypothesis. The thing about theories is that they demand evidence - you can make any old hypothesis you like without providing any evidence for it at all. You have no evidence that Brexit caused all the problems that you claim and most of our current problems are also afflicting the EU - and many other countries. If you have no evidence your theory is worthless. The "GFC" as you call it was very far from global and basically affected only countries that a) over-borrowed or b) the Eurozone which has attempted to impose a single currency on disparate nations without fiscal union. The EU's financial problems are intractable and very difficult to solve. You can't just lump a whole lot of different problems together and call them the GFC. That's financially illiterate. As for the stock market the dire predictions of Remainers like you - that we'd lose most of our bankers - have not come to pass. Everything looks fine and the fact that the FTSE has hit 8000 is amazing - I never saw that coming. This indicates long term confidence in the economy. And if the financial sector has shrunk slightly (which is dubious anyway) it was probably overdue. We've been too reliant on our financial sector for decades. Considering how deliberately difficult the EU has been I'd say Brexit has worked out remarkably well. And remember that the reason that we got a "less than ideal" agreement with the EU is because our remainer MPs forced the "Surrender bill" on us whereby Parliament prevented us from leaving without a deal. Can you imagine any more stupid negotiating strategy with a trading partner (who doesn't want us to leave) than telling them that we won't leave without a deal? Completely crazy. You can be as pedantic and as wrong as you want but I will not argue the toss over terminologies particularly when the terms I use do not detract from the meaning of my statements. Almost every country was affected by the GFC. Some were affected more than others; some directly and others, indirectly. Now, if you want to insist that the crisis was not global because some were affected less severely and/or "only" indirectly, then fine -- reinvent the wheel, if that makes you feel intelligent. What's financially illiterate is the claim that the financial problems faced by the Eurozone and the EU in '08-'09 were not part of the global financial crisis -- which "coincidentally" occurred during the same, exact period. Whether you think the EU's financial problems are intractable and very difficult to solve is irrelevant. According to a study by Ernst & Young, "more than 7,000 finance jobs have moved from London to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a report by consultants at EY last year. They said Paris scored highest in terms of attracting jobs from London, totalling 2,800, followed by Frankfurt at about 1,800 and Dublin with 1,200."
The claim that Brexit has worked out well is a laughable Brexit delusion. Has worked out well? -- A BoE study concludes that "the UK has suffered a loss of business investment since the 2016 Brexit referendum worth £29bn, or £1,000 a household." Bloomberg recently determined that Brexit is costing the UK £100B a year. Brexit has worked out well, my ass! Given that remainer doom laden predictions were that tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs losses would occur and move on mass to the EU from London never eventuated, it makes your current stats look pretty grim and prior predictions wholly inaccurate - a little bit like you claim on the economy as a whole. London has maintained and even strengthened its position as one of the world's leading financial centers with not one EU city making the top 10. Here, read it and weep: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/biggest-financial-centers-london-nears-new-york-2020-9-1029622179?miRedirects=1The fact the gap between London and New York is shrinking is likely to be a major win for the British capital which was ranked the world's top financial centre as recently as March 2018, in the 23rd edition of the report and is looking to retain its crown status in a post-Brexit world.And another cut in the nuts to your narrative, around 1000 EU financial firms plan on opening up offices in the UK - that wasn't the predictions of remainers either. www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUSKBN1ZJ00D
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Feb 17, 2023 21:25:41 GMT
The global economy is teetering on the brink of recession, we've gone through a global pandemic and there's a major war in Europe between two extremely important suppliers to the world market. If we'd stayed in the EU things would still be extremely shit. But, faith in our politicians would have gone completely if our vote to leave had been betrayed as some on here wanted. But Vin, the global economic downturn, the covid pandemic and yes, Putin's invasion of Ukraine, is all because of Brexit.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Feb 17, 2023 21:27:58 GMT
The global economy is teetering on the brink of recession, we've gone through a global pandemic and there's a major war in Europe between two extremely important suppliers to the world market. If we'd stayed in the EU things would still be extremely shit. But, faith in our politicians would have gone completely if our vote to leave had been betrayed as some on here wanted. But Vin, the global economic downturn, the covid pandemic and yes, Putin's invasion of Ukraine, is all because of Brexit. Indeed. I believe the earth-quaked in shock horror in Turkey last week because of Brexit as well.
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Feb 17, 2023 21:32:28 GMT
But Vin, the global economic downturn, the covid pandemic and yes, Putin's invasion of Ukraine, is all because of Brexit. Indeed. I believe the earth-quaked in shock horror in Turkey last week because of Brexit as well. I'm fairly confident that Gnome could supply evidence to confirm that.
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 17, 2023 21:37:27 GMT
Indeed. I believe the earth-quaked in shock horror in Turkey last week because of Brexit as well. I'm fairly confident that Gnome could supply evidence to confirm that. It'll be a first.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Feb 17, 2023 21:38:31 GMT
Indeed. I believe the earth-quaked in shock horror in Turkey last week because of Brexit as well. I'm fairly confident that Gnome could supply evidence to confirm that. lol
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Feb 18, 2023 7:11:57 GMT
Gnome said: "What's financially illiterate is the claim that the financial problems faced by the Eurozone and the EU in '08-'09 were not part of the global financial crisis -- which "coincidentally" occurred during the same, exact period. Whether you think the EU's financial problems are intractable and very difficult to solve is irrelevant."
If you want to solve a problem it's important to understand the cause of it. That's fundamental. If you want to shrug off the Eurozone's financial problems as just part of the "Global Financial Crisis" then you're financially illiterate. They're caused by the attempt to share one currency between disparate countries without fiscal union and require a different solution to the financial problems of the UK and the USA. Printing money won't help the Eurozone.
The "coincidence" of the financial problems was caused by the USA's "solution" to their banks' bad debt problems of selling CDO's around the world to naive bankers. That caused the Credit Crunch because no one knew which banks were holding the worthless paper. But the basic problems of the various countries who were affected by the Credit Crunch were NOT the same. They just had the same "trigger" - the Credit Crunch. But they needed different solutions - and the EU has NEVER solved its ongoing problems. That's why I call them "intractable" - and call you financially illiterate. You just google figures that seem to back up your own opinion - without having any understanding of what's actually going on.
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Feb 18, 2023 9:40:57 GMT
This morning the Bulgarian Lev was valued at .51 Euros. If I were an international trading company trading in different currencies across the world, I would prefer to trade in euros when doing business in Bulgaria. It is far easier to know the euro will keep its value when I trade elsewhere. If you want to confine your trade to within one country and one currency, fine. But if something happens to that country the value of their currency goes down. But such an event won't affect the euro, representing 27 economies, as much if at all.
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 18, 2023 9:49:21 GMT
This morning the Bulgarian Lev was valued at .51 Euros. If I were an international trading company trading in different currencies across the world, I would prefer to trade in euros when doing business in Bulgaria. It is far easier to know the euro will keep its value when I trade elsewhere. If you want to confine your trade to within one country and one currency, fine. But if something happens to that country the value of their currency goes down. But such an event won't affect the euro, representing 27 economies, as much if at all. One of the problems with several EU countries is their currences were pitched at the wrong level when they joined the euro, Britain was one of them that pitched the pound too high leaving Germany and France laughing all the way to the bank.
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Feb 18, 2023 9:55:53 GMT
The FTSE is not a measure of the UK economy.It is merely another marketplace for anyone to buy or sell investment in any company which joins it. The companies could be anywhere in the world as can be the investors. You could live in Thailand and trade stocks and shares in Australia. The only benefit to the UK is the charges paid in the transactions. I'm well aware of that having spent decades playing the markets. The way I look at it is that the FTSE is an indicator of long term confidence (12 to 18 months) whereas the value of currencies is a measure of very short term sentiment. But it's certainly a good sign that the FTSE 100 is above 8000. Unless of course you're a Remainer - when even the good signs are ignored. It was 23 years ago that we broke the 7000 barrier. Then you know that it is perfectly possible that he FTSE index represents people from all over the world buying and selling businesses all over the world, through the stock exchange chosen by the first board who listed the business. It has nothing to do with leavers or remainers. It merely means that people are buying and selling more than (pick a time). They don't have to be UK businesses or traders. What would be comforting would be a clear upturn in international investors buying into British businesses instead of buying them up, changing their purpose or asset stripping, including laying off employees. In the end it is up to the shareholders and more importantly,the BoD decide to accept or refuse a takeover bid...either a merger or acquisition. Unfortunately over the past 25 years, greed has eaten out the growth and investment the UK needs. This is not a Brexit issue. It is a legacy of poor long term vision. The UK seems to have lost its direction and expertise...except in the field of genetic and genomic research and development. If you want to see an upswing in the British economy, invest in British businesses.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Feb 18, 2023 10:31:39 GMT
FTSE 100 is a list of British businesses registered through the London stock exchange.
Stop talking us down.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 18, 2023 10:33:10 GMT
FTSE 100 is a list of British businesses registered through the London stock exchange. Stop talking us down. Read again what Oracle said FTSE 350 is more like a measure of UK Businesses.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Feb 18, 2023 10:41:00 GMT
Even so, there are far bigger issues in the world than Brexit which are affecting everyone. The world economy is close to recession with inflation affecting every country in the democratic world.
This war in Ukraine is affecting everyone.
Ukraine is a huge food exporter. Russia a huge energy exporter.
Whether we like it or not, a policy of closing down our own coal gas and oil production has left us with no coal mines and fewer oil and gas rigs and a policy of shutting down power stations to combat climate change didn't result in like for like replacement capacity in the grid.
Leaving the EU isn't the reason for high energy prices and higher food prices.
Bad policy from British government is a bigger problem.
It's time to start pushing our politicians.
Speak to MPs.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 18, 2023 10:43:27 GMT
Even so, there are far bigger issues in the world than Brexit . . . Not if your posting history is anything to go by
|
|