|
|
Post by borchester on Feb 16, 2023 9:48:03 GMT
it'll be fine...Thales'll superglue the bearings together and charge us a few gazzillion quid for the glue....then it'll float off into the blue yonder becoming the career progression path for many many worthwhile admirals of the fleet who themselves will spend their entire military careers in the pursuit of lobbying parliament to spend even more money for yet more amazingly technical, stupendously expensive and strategically useless aircraft bloody carriers.... Shame it can't be insured as the best chance of getting our bloody money back would be have some junior seaman steer the bloody boat onto a very big rock and then present insurers with the claim form.... You mean like happenned with Endurance (the shipwreck i mean not the claim) I remember taking tbe tourist ride around portsmouth dock and seeing all the hulks rusting quietly in tbe sun and there was this big red and white one and i thought bloody hell wasn't that being made a fuss of only the year before last. Mind you the saddest sight was to see the ships i’d helped put together or keep going now sat in that waterside scrapyard. And the sight from above of the aircraft carrier with its propellors on the flight deck. That caused a definite lump in the throat. Anything that costs £3 billions will have significant maintenance problems. And anything to do with the military costs zillions of pounds. In May 1941 the Prince of Wales broke off its action with the Bismark because its gun's were not working, and that was 2 years after being launched. Half the cruise ship sailing serenely around the world have semi permanent scavenge fires.
If you don't want to spend telephone numbers on men and ships and guns, join the Lib Dems and vote to re equip our armed forces with white flags
|
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Feb 16, 2023 9:51:14 GMT
You mean like happenned with Endurance (the shipwreck i mean not the claim) I remember taking tbe tourist ride around portsmouth dock and seeing all the hulks rusting quietly in tbe sun and there was this big red and white one and i thought bloody hell wasn't that being made a fuss of only the year before last. Mind you the saddest sight was to see the ships i’d helped put together or keep going now sat in that waterside scrapyard. And the sight from above of the aircraft carrier with its propellors on the flight deck. That caused a definite lump in the throat. Anything that costs £3 billions will have significant maintenance problems. And anything to do with the military costs zillions of pounds. In May 1941 the Prince of Wales broke off its action with the Bismark because its gun's were not working, and that was 2 years after being launched. Half the cruise ship sailing serenely around the world have semi permanent scavenge fires.
If you don't want to spend telephone numbers on men and ships and guns, join the Lib Dems and vote to re equip our armed forces with white flags
Even during then Falkisland shindig the mainstay of our fleet was the Ark Royal and that set sale with one of the gearboxes being faulty and new one was fitted whilst they were still under steam at a reduced rate. |
|
|
|
Post by sword on Feb 16, 2023 11:37:17 GMT
NATO according to many Republians in the United States, including Donald Trump is not very relevant to the U.S, and so there is a real danger of the alliance not holding together in future, if the Americans go down back down the route of "America First", if someone like Trump gets elected again, NATO could be in trouble. We seriously need a European Defence pact, and Germany and other European nations are, at last, getting serious about defence spending and the threats that face all of us in Europe. The world is changing, this is no longer the Cold War of the 1960s or 70s, new threats have arisen, and whilst Russia still poses a real threat, nations like the USA and Canada are also focused on the Pacific, and the rise of both Chinese and North Korea as threats. NATO is extremely important, the NATO alliance keeps megalomaniacs like Putin in check. The only reason NATO may become less relevant to the US is because 'Europe' doesn't take defence seriously, particularly since 1989. Ever since the end of WW2 Europe has relied on the US to protect Europe from Soviet/Russian aggression. When the USSR collapsed idiot politicians in western Europe immediately started talking about the 'peace dividend' and set about slashing defence budgets, and boy did they. Well now our chickens are comming home to roost, the US can see little point in supporting European countries who don't want to support themselves, who can blame them. The British army was without doubt the best army in Europe which is why the EU wanted a European army, I'm pleased to say Brexit cocked that plan up. If Germany had put as much into it's armed forces as it has in supporting the EU and immigrants it would have the best armed forces in Europe. Sadly Merkel was an incompetent left wing pacifist. China is becoming a threat simply because the west is sitting back and allowing it to happen. The coal based Chinese economy continues to grow and attract more and more western companies as western economies struggle to cope with net zero. And anyone who thinks North Korea is a threat should not be taken seriously. Nato is a criminal organisation and a Foreign Legion for American World hegemony,end of. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Feb 16, 2023 12:10:05 GMT
Anything that costs £3 billions will have significant maintenance problems. And anything to do with the military costs zillions of pounds. In May 1941 the Prince of Wales broke off its action with the Bismark because its gun's were not working, and that was 2 years after being launched. Half the cruise ship sailing serenely around the world have semi permanent scavenge fires.
If you don't want to spend telephone numbers on men and ships and guns, join the Lib Dems and vote to re equip our armed forces with white flags
Even during then Falkisland shindig the mainstay of our fleet was the Ark Royal and that set sale with one of the gearboxes being faulty and new one was fitted whilst they were still under steam at a reduced rate. The Ark Royal was scrapped in 1980, two years before the Falklands crisis. You must be thinking of Hermes or Invincible. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Feb 16, 2023 12:16:56 GMT
Even during then Falkisland shindig the mainstay of our fleet was the Ark Royal and that set sale with one of the gearboxes being faulty and new one was fitted whilst they were still under steam at a reduced rate. The Ark Royal was scrapped in 1980, two years before the Falklands crisis. You must be thinking of Hermes or Hermes or Invincible. Sorry I know it was one of our main fleet...It must have been Invincible or Hermes as I remember the reports stating it was a carrier I am sure they quoted flagship which of course pointed to HMS Hermes. LOL showing my ignorance on the matter. |
|
|
|
Post by Handyman on Feb 16, 2023 12:45:24 GMT
The New Carrier was jointly built with manufactures in the EU, that is why the MOD is talking to the French about the problems with the Propellers and drive shafts, lay odds that does go down well with the French  |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Feb 16, 2023 14:44:39 GMT
Of course the carriers were contracted when we had no bloody aircraft for them, having grounded the Harrier. I cant speak for the aircraft now on them, i have been out of the game too long.
But i confess some years ago i visited the museum at Yeovilton which holds a number of impressive aircraft but at the time it hat a one fifth scale model of the plane under development for the new carriers. I recall the marketing hype on the stand, telling me the burying of the air intakes in the wing contours made it ‘almost invisible’ to radar….
About ten minutes later one of the museum stewards came over to say hello. He was to be fair wondering why i had spent most of the time on my knees craning to squint along the air intake manifold of the model … so i told him. I read the claim on the card and wished to declare the challenge accepted, after all, grandad would rise from the grave and haunt me in disgust if i could not get a beam through that wing somehow….
I’m out of the game now. I’ll have to see if my grand daughter has the aptitude to take up where i left off. After all, the family has been in the boffin business for quite a while …
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Feb 16, 2023 18:14:42 GMT
You mean like happenned with Endurance (the shipwreck i mean not the claim) I remember taking tbe tourist ride around portsmouth dock and seeing all the hulks rusting quietly in tbe sun and there was this big red and white one and i thought bloody hell wasn't that being made a fuss of only the year before last. Mind you the saddest sight was to see the ships i’d helped put together or keep going now sat in that waterside scrapyard. And the sight from above of the aircraft carrier with its propellors on the flight deck. That caused a definite lump in the throat. yeah...basically I think they should never have been built. The main issue I have these aircraft carriers, apart from them being designed around an aircraft (arguably) not really offering much in the way of reliability capability, is the lack of a military eco-system that needs to be in place in order to allow them to function in high threat environments. The US operate catapult launched aircraft which allows those ships to send and receive aircraft in many configurations. The F/A-18 and Growlers can provide multi layer defence and attack configurations including in-flight refueling wheres the UK version of the F35 can't leaving them and the ship highly vunerable. They look great and am sure the parties that the admirals will be a hoot but that's about it.
Unless there is a highly organised infrastructure behind them then these ship are really limited in what they can do and where they can go....anyway I totally agree - who in their right mind would build an aircraft carrier that can only take one model of aircraft. All it would take is for a single serious failure to ground the fleet (not unknown in aviation) and you end up with 65,000 tons of scrap metal you cannot do anything with. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Feb 16, 2023 18:16:08 GMT
Of course the carriers were contracted when we had no bloody aircraft for them, having grounded the Harrier. I cant speak for the aircraft now on them, ....best aircraft we had was the old Buccaneer....that was a bute Yep - best low level strike aircraft in the world. Always did great against the Yanks at Red Flag - they simply could not get down low enough. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Feb 17, 2023 7:58:03 GMT
Nato is a criminal organisation and a Foreign Legion for American World hegemony,end of. LOL, good man sword, always good for a laugh. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Feb 17, 2023 11:19:19 GMT
yeah...basically I think they should never have been built. The main issue I have these aircraft carriers, apart from them being designed around an aircraft (arguably) not really offering much in the way of reliability capability, is the lack of a military eco-system that needs to be in place in order to allow them to function in high threat environments. The US operate catapult launched aircraft which allows those ships to send and receive aircraft in many configurations. The F/A-18 and Growlers can provide multi layer defence and attack configurations including in-flight refueling wheres the UK version of the F35 can't leaving them and the ship highly vunerable. They look great and am sure the parties that the admirals will be a hoot but that's about it.
Unless there is a highly organised infrastructure behind them then these ship are really limited in what they can do and where they can go....anyway I totally agree - who in their right mind would build an aircraft carrier that can only take one model of aircraft. All it would take is for a single serious failure to ground the fleet (not unknown in aviation) and you end up with 65,000 tons of scrap metal you cannot do anything with. I think the thing was not so much ‘we only had one aircraft’ which i agree is pretty risky snd i think such was the case with the falklands but in the case of the Queen Elizabeth ‘there were NO aircraft at all’ was the fact of the matter when the ship was initially floated. Barking. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 11:38:35 GMT
I am very glad that both of these Capital Class super-carriers were ordered and built ( by the previous Labour government ).
There are only a handful of companies in the world who are capable of building such vessels to such high specifications and standards. We could have outsourced the building to the United States, but instead these flagships of the Royal Navy were built here in the UK, by a consortium of British and French companies.
We seem to be moving towards an evil axis of China and Russia, supported by their lapdogs ( North Korea, Syria, Iran etc ).
"The capable" ie the United States, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Poland, Australia, Japan etc, need to work towards ensuring the world remains democratic, follows the rule of law, respects sovereignty and the right to self determination and free elections.
We need an alliance "for the good", and there s no better way of moving your military influence around the world, than in an Aircraft Carrier.
|
|
