|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 19:28:45 GMT
The problem you have here Red is that many folks consider anyone seeking asylum as an asylum seeker. A bit like seeing a bunch of drug dealers and asking who's innocent. The answer is all of them until found guilty. But the real answer is they're a bunch of drug dealers so of course they're guilty. In case you're confused (Yes I am on your side here) Quote... ... "An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
It is impossible under the constraints of the 1951 Refugee Convention for an Albanian to seek asylum. Further, in my opinion, if the Convention was applied as above, I suspect 100% of illegals crossing the channel would be refused asylum on the grounds that according to the Convention, they are not asylum seekers. They are economic migrants, and criminals various. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 19:30:31 GMT
So the thousands of Albanians, Albania being a safe country, who are fleeing from France, France being another safe country, who step onto Kent beaches and claim to be asylum seekers, are in fact, illegals? They act illegally under international law if their point of origin was not a place of danger. The UK acts illegally under international law if it does not assess their applications in accordance with the rules of natural justice. The UK is perfectly entitled to deport them if they have been found not to have originated from a place of danger provided it has first complied with the rules of natural justice. That ^ is utter bullshit, and you know it. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jan 28, 2023 19:53:26 GMT
Consequences of the vote: Democracy. 1,Being outside the single market means no free movement of EU criminals. VISAS mean the workers we do need from abroad can come, without discriminating by nationality. 2, A free trade deal with no tariffs and no quotas. 2a, Sure there's customs clearance checks, but that's not the end of the world. 3, We're doing more trade with the USA. 4, Our carbon footprint has gone down, rather than up.
5, Economic hardships are the legacy of the Covid crisis and the war in Ukraine.
Not Brexit.
1, Any noticeable reduction in crime? 2, That's the biggest joke, no one wants to trade with us on better terms than the EU and exports have fallen. 2a, 13% of UK businesses have stopped exporting to the EU because of red tape. 3, Barely. 4, Unrelated. 5, Then why are they higher in the UK than the EU? Did they not have Covid and the Ukraine war over there. In any case our hardships start long before Covid. Please stop gas lighting and admit its failed. 1) Yes, EU criminals such as Romanian pickpockets have gone. 2) Better terms than EU deals have been negotiated. UK Japan FTA for example. 3) Exports to the EU were falling before we left. Exports to the rest of the world have risen. 4) Our carbon footprint is related to UK EU exports. And environmentalists would argue, more important than the economy. 5) The EU has just as serious cost of living problems and energy shortages and problems in recruiting due to shit pay. Brexit has helped force shit employers to pay more. Shit employers aren't able to rely on underpaid Eastern European slaves any more. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 20:09:27 GMT
It says nothing about fleeing a safe country. It permits asylum seekers to transit safe countries en route to their final destination, though. So the thousands of Albanians, Albania being a safe country, who are fleeing from France, France being another safe country, who step onto Kent beaches and claim to be asylum seekers, are in fact, illegals? Anyone who doesn't report straight to the authorities on arrival is illegal until they can prove they have a valid claim. I don't think you will find many people who would argue otherwise. Albania is a rough place and there may be a very small number of people who are genuinely fleeing for their lives but mostly it is desperate people hoping for a better future and criminal gangs exploiting the situation. It's a shitty situation caused by inequality of opportunity. If Albania could join the EU then perhaps their situation could improve like other struggling nations have found. Let's not forget though, the UK was never a part of Schengen and therefore we always had controls against non EU citizens entering at legitimate border crossings and we have no more powers to control them making illegal crossings of the channel now than before. If you thought Brexit was going to stop it you were duped. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jan 28, 2023 20:11:43 GMT
They act illegally under international law if their point of origin was not a place of danger. The UK acts illegally under international law if it does not assess their applications in accordance with the rules of natural justice. The UK is perfectly entitled to deport them if they have been found not to have originated from a place of danger provided it has first complied with the rules of natural justice. That ^ is utter bullshit, and you know it. Is it? Is that why your response is so vague? Provide some detail as to why you think that and I might take your claim seriously. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jan 28, 2023 20:14:48 GMT
1, Any noticeable reduction in crime? 2, That's the biggest joke, no one wants to trade with us on better terms than the EU and exports have fallen. 2a, 13% of UK businesses have stopped exporting to the EU because of red tape. 3, Barely. 4, Unrelated. 5, Then why are they higher in the UK than the EU? Did they not have Covid and the Ukraine war over there. In any case our hardships start long before Covid. Please stop gas lighting and admit its failed. 1) Yes, EU criminals such as Romanian pickpockets have gone. 2) Better terms than EU deals have been negotiated. UK Japan FTA for example. 3) Exports to the EU were falling before we left. Exports to the rest of the world have risen. 4) Our carbon footprint is related to UK EU exports. And environmentalists would argue, more important than the economy. 5) The EU has just as serious cost of living problems and energy shortages and problems in recruiting due to shit pay. Brexit has helped force shit employers to pay more. Shit employers aren't able to rely on underpaid Eastern European slaves any more. How's your plan to parachute entire families into Somalia coming along, Vinny? |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jan 28, 2023 20:22:17 GMT
1, Any noticeable reduction in crime? 2, That's the biggest joke, no one wants to trade with us on better terms than the EU and exports have fallen. 2a, 13% of UK businesses have stopped exporting to the EU because of red tape. 3, Barely. 4, Unrelated. 5, Then why are they higher in the UK than the EU? Did they not have Covid and the Ukraine war over there. In any case our hardships start long before Covid. Please stop gas lighting and admit its failed. 1) Yes, EU criminals such as Romanian pickpockets have gone. 2) Better terms than EU deals have been negotiated. UK Japan FTA for example. 3) Exports to the EU were falling before we left. Exports to the rest of the world have risen. 4) Our carbon footprint is related to UK EU exports. And environmentalists would argue, more important than the economy. 5) The EU has just as serious cost of living problems and energy shortages and problems in recruiting due to shit pay. Brexit has helped force shit employers to pay more. Shit employers aren't able to rely on underpaid Eastern European slaves any more. 1, Have they really. 2, Er NO. The UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA) came into force in January 2021, as part of the UK’s post-Brexit trading arrangements. CEPA was designed to largely replicate the EU-Japan Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA), to which the UK had been a party. On the face of it, there was little additional economic value to the UK, since CEPA provisions follow EPA provisions so closely, except for a chapter on digital trade.3, You know that we have lost more than we gained right? 4, Excellent so you are wishing for complete economic collapse in the UK? For me I'd rather we achieved it by using renewable energy. 5, The UK economy is doing worse than the whole EU. That's what this thread is about. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 20:46:02 GMT
So the thousands of Albanians, Albania being a safe country, who are fleeing from France, France being another safe country, who step onto Kent beaches and claim to be asylum seekers, are in fact, illegals? Anyone who doesn't report straight to the authorities on arrival is illegal until they can prove they have a valid claim. I don't think you will find many people who would argue otherwise. Albania is a rough place and there may be a very small number of people who are genuinely fleeing for their lives but mostly it is desperate people hoping for a better future and criminal gangs exploiting the situation. It's a shitty situation caused by inequality of opportunity. If Albania could join the EU then perhaps their situation could improve like other struggling nations have found. Let's not forget though, the UK was never a part of Schengen and therefore we always had controls against non EU citizens entering at legitimate border crossings and we have no more powers to control them making illegal crossings of the channel now than before. If you thought Brexit was going to stop it you were duped. The problem is, the government, the Home Office and the border force. They're all lefties. Yes including this conservative government. As far as they're concerned anyone who steps onto a Kent beach is immediately considered to be a poor 14 year old refugee regardless of where they came from, and that is not what the Convention says. Even though 26 year old Afrim is a strapping 15 stone 6 footer with a five o'clock shadow and looks more like a prize fighter than the 14 year old schoolboy he claims to be, as far as the lunatic lefties are concerned he must be believed, regardless of the obvious dangers. How many times has that happened? Who knows. The world is looking at this fiasco and wondering why on earth it's allowed to continue. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 20:50:35 GMT
That ^ is utter bullshit, and you know it. Is it? Is that why your response is so vague? Provide some detail as to why you think that and I might take your claim seriously. Dont give me that crap. It's bullshit, if you had anything to back it up it up it would have been here by now. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jan 28, 2023 21:28:11 GMT
Is it? Is that why your response is so vague? Provide some detail as to why you think that and I might take your claim seriously. Dont give me that crap. It's bullshit, if you had anything to back it up it up it would have been here by now. What? We've been over this countless times. International law allows asylum seekers to choose their country of asylum. They are allowed to transit safe countries provided they don't unduly delay in any one of them. How many times do you need to be told, Red? |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 21:40:35 GMT
Dont give me that crap. It's bullshit, if you had anything to back it up it up it would have been here by now. What? We've been over this countless times. International law allows asylum seekers to choose their country of asylum. They are allowed to transit safe countries provided they don't unduly delay in any one of them. How many times do you need to be told, Red? " An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Jan 28, 2023 21:42:57 GMT
What? We've been over this countless times. International law allows asylum seekers to choose their country of asylum. They are allowed to transit safe countries provided they don't unduly delay in any one of them. How many times do you need to be told, Red? " An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
And? |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 21:56:48 GMT
" An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
And? How can an Albanian of dubious age step onto a Kent beach, after paying a people trafficker in France lol, and say he's a 14 year old Albanian who is claiming asylum? It's nonsense. According to the UN Albania and every country he travelled through to get to England are safe countries. Let me remind you, again. "An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
Get in the bin. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 28, 2023 22:21:40 GMT
FFS - are all EU supporters this thick.  I'll try and make it simple for you. Under the Dublin Agreement we ended up with more Asylum Seekers than we started with.. 1) Compare the number of asylum seekers arriving now with the number that were arriving when the Dublin Regulations acted as a deterrent. If we ended up with more asylum seekers who was deterred? A system that increases the number of asylum seekers is a deterrent - who knew.. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 22:42:12 GMT
How can an Albanian of dubious age step onto a Kent beach, after paying a people trafficker in France lol, and say he's a 14 year old Albanian who is claiming asylum? It's nonsense. According to the UN Albania and every country he travelled through to get to England are safe countries. Let me remind you, again. "An asylum seeker is an immigrant who has been forcibly displaced and might have fled their home country because of war or other factors harming them or their family".
Get in the bin. Then they will be refused asylum and returned to Albania. |
|
