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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2023 18:29:53 GMT
Making everyone study maths until they are 18 is a ludicrous one size fits all policy. Everyone is different. Some people will be great at maths. Others will be rubbish at it but might be good at English or Art. We should be playing to an individual's strengths to maximise their potential. If their strengths include maths then great. If not, focus on maximising their potential in what they are good at. A nation of excellent specialists is preferable to one of average all rounders. Don’t you think literacy and numeracy are of equal importance when starting out in life in this modern world? It’s the teaching of these subjects that needs to be kept under review. It’s worrying that anywhere between 5% and 10% of UK adults are estimated to be functionally illiterate and innumerate… Numeracy (and of course literacy) are important, and there is something to be said for trying to ensure that everyone can manage basic arithmetic. But those who already get this, what is the point of forcing them to learn higher mathematics beyond 16 when it is not their forte? Most higher maths like algebra and geometry are not necessary for everyday functioning and are only necessary for certain types of career choices. If maths is not someone's forte but they have talents in other areas, why not focus upon nurturing these and let the higher maths be dropped at 16? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 5, 2023 18:44:28 GMT
I think there should be a lot more emphasis on maths, and written English, or the 3 R's as it used to be called. English and maths are the bedrock of education. Anyone who doesn't have a grasp of these two core subjects is unlikely to do very well in life. In my opinion. Just shows how an unthinking and patronising reference in olden times to Reading, Writing and Arithmetic has backfired so tragically. We (the organisation I work for) frequently receive badly written inquiries from graduates looking for jobs. Too often it’s been accepted in the past that new recruits may need more than job training but require additional training in report comprehension and drafting. Now it’s no longer so. T oday’s applicants should be trying to sell themselves — if they can’t do that, what help can they offer to others…? Really, and just how would they do that?
If we look around us nearly all selling is trying to present a false image. I'll give you one example. There is a firm that trades under the name Pukka Pies.
But when I open one up to insert some salt the pie is less than half full.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 6, 2023 10:47:16 GMT
As I said elsewhere, this is coming back to bite him big time
A numerate school leaving electorate will see straight through the bullshit numbers politicians spout routinely to defend their actions.
This won’t go well
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Post by patman post on Jan 6, 2023 15:13:16 GMT
Just shows how an unthinking and patronising reference in olden times to Reading, Writing and Arithmetic has backfired so tragically. We (the organisation I work for) frequently receive badly written inquiries from graduates looking for jobs. Too often it’s been accepted in the past that new recruits may need more than job training but require additional training in report comprehension and drafting. Now it’s no longer so. T oday’s applicants should be trying to sell themselves — if they can’t do that, what help can they offer to others…? Really, and just how would they do that?
If we look around us nearly all selling is trying to present a false image. I'll give you one example. There is a firm that trades under the name Pukka Pies.
But when I open one up to insert some salt the pie is less than half full.
Pukka — adjective, less commonly pucka ; meaning : genuine, authentic, also : first-class
Pukka tends to evoke the height of 18th- and 19th-century British imperialism in India, and, indeed, it was first used in print in English in 1776, in transcripts of the trial of Maha Rajah Nundocomar, who was accused of forgery and tried, in 1775, by a British court in Bengal. The word is borrowed from Hindi and Urdu "pakkā," which means "solid." The English speakers who borrowed it applied the "sound and reliable" sense of "solid" and thus the word came to mean "genuine." As the British Raj waned, "pukka" was occasionally appended to "sahib" (an Anglo-Indian word for a European of some social or official status). That expression is sometimes used as a compliment for an elegant and refined gentleman, but it can also imply that someone is overbearing and pretentious. These days, "pukka" is also used as a British slang word meaning "excellent" or "cool."
Though wtf any of that has to do with being able to adequately present oneself and one's abilities appropriately escapes me...
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Post by Toreador on Jan 6, 2023 15:59:05 GMT
Really, and just how would they do that?
If we look around us nearly all selling is trying to present a false image. I'll give you one example. There is a firm that trades under the name Pukka Pies.
But when I open one up to insert some salt the pie is less than half full.
Pukka — adjective, less commonly pucka ; meaning : genuine, authentic, also : first-class
Pukka tends to evoke the height of 18th- and 19th-century British imperialism in India, and, indeed, it was first used in print in English in 1776, in transcripts of the trial of Maha Rajah Nundocomar, who was accused of forgery and tried, in 1775, by a British court in Bengal. The word is borrowed from Hindi and Urdu "pakkā," which means "solid." The English speakers who borrowed it applied the "sound and reliable" sense of "solid" and thus the word came to mean "genuine." As the British Raj waned, "pukka" was occasionally appended to "sahib" (an Anglo-Indian word for a European of some social or official status). That expression is sometimes used as a compliment for an elegant and refined gentleman, but it can also imply that someone is overbearing and pretentious. These days, "pukka" is also used as a British slang word meaning "excellent" or "cool."
Though wtf any of that has to do with being able to adequately present oneself and one's abilities appropriately escapes me...
It's obvious either you are not pukka or the Baron is talking shite. The reason he thinks the pies are half full, when the truth is they're half empty to allow copious quantities of salt.  Now to your point about written presentation. Artound 1980 when unemployment was going through the roof, we advertised for reps, something that would normally have attracted maybe 10 or 12 applicants. I was Field Sales Manager and one evening sat down with the Sales Director and Mangaing Director to sift through the applications, all 72 of them. I was rejecting most of my pile at a rate of knots when the MD having obviously read a couple of my rejections suddenly handed me one and asked, "Why have you rejected this one, he looks a possibility". I picked it up and told him the writing and grammar were atrocious and that when he wrote out his customer visit reports, I had to read them, other people had to read them, the sales director and even he, the MD, might need to read one. The Sales director was having silent fits because, like me, he knew that the MD was a world leader in atrocious writing and useles at running even a tap. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 6, 2023 16:02:57 GMT
Really, and just how would they do that?
If we look around us nearly all selling is trying to present a false image. I'll give you one example. There is a firm that trades under the name Pukka Pies.
But when I open one up to insert some salt the pie is less than half full.
Pukka — adjective, less commonly pucka ; meaning : genuine, authentic, also : first-class
Pukka tends to evoke the height of 18th- and 19th-century British imperialism in India, and, indeed, it was first used in print in English in 1776, in transcripts of the trial of Maha Rajah Nundocomar, who was accused of forgery and tried, in 1775, by a British court in Bengal. The word is borrowed from Hindi and Urdu "pakkā," which means "solid." The English speakers who borrowed it applied the "sound and reliable" sense of "solid" and thus the word came to mean "genuine." As the British Raj waned, "pukka" was occasionally appended to "sahib" (an Anglo-Indian word for a European of some social or official status). That expression is sometimes used as a compliment for an elegant and refined gentleman, but it can also imply that someone is overbearing and pretentious. These days, "pukka" is also used as a British slang word meaning "excellent" or "cool."
Though wtf any of that has to do with being able to adequately present oneself and one's abilities appropriately escapes me...
Right well on the supermarket shelf we have single boxes for these pies which are 3 inches in thickness. Out of the box comes a pie which is about 2 inches high. Once we take the lid off the pie we peek inside to see a very small amount of chicken balti. Do you know about Russian dolls. Well here we see the same kind of construct. This is the British market.
Now lets say you are interviewing a candidate for a position in your company. Like it is in Morrisons, you are the buyer and instead of buying a pie you are buying someone's labour or time. The productivity is what you want. This is the chicken balti, full of protein and so valuable to your body.
Assuming you are intelligent enough to process analogies, lets remind you of what I highlighted that you said.
OK so the applicant thinks, OK I must get a job and the buyer of my time is saying the above. Therefore the goal of acquiring the job can only be achieved if I sell myself. The applicant, who bought a pie earlier in Morrisons thinks, well Pukka Pies are a big brand, highly successful and professional and in a job. I will copy their professionalism.
Now less see. In order to sell a spoonful of chicken balti for two quid I must make it look far bigger on the shelf than it really is. I will apply this sales tactic to my CV. Now I know I failed all my o levels and was thrown out of a crap job for fighting and god knows what else, so I'll hide all of this and make it look like I'm a PhD researcher type and in the top 5% in intelligence. I'll fake some reviews, create a false social media profile... and so on. I'll fool the man at the interview and once I get the contract it will be too late to sack me cos I'm black and I'll claim racism.
So the outcome of your smart idea is to get totally shafted with the emplyee from hell and it will cost you dearly in many ways.
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Post by Cartertonian on Jan 6, 2023 20:18:34 GMT
I'd certainly hate to be seen as defending Rishi Sunak (  ), but provided the maths provision for those not wishing to study in-depth maths was based around functional numeracy, financial awareness and occupationally-focused applied maths, I think it's not a bad idea. However, I recall someone commenting when Sunak was appointed as PM that he, 'thinks in Excel'. Ergo, I think Simon Pegg's observation that he's wanting to create a 'drone army of data entering robots' is probably closer to his motivation. |
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Post by patman post on Jan 7, 2023 13:52:40 GMT
Pukka — adjective, less commonly pucka ; meaning : genuine, authentic, also : first-class
Pukka tends to evoke the height of 18th- and 19th-century British imperialism in India, and, indeed, it was first used in print in English in 1776, in transcripts of the trial of Maha Rajah Nundocomar, who was accused of forgery and tried, in 1775, by a British court in Bengal. The word is borrowed from Hindi and Urdu "pakkā," which means "solid." The English speakers who borrowed it applied the "sound and reliable" sense of "solid" and thus the word came to mean "genuine." As the British Raj waned, "pukka" was occasionally appended to "sahib" (an Anglo-Indian word for a European of some social or official status). That expression is sometimes used as a compliment for an elegant and refined gentleman, but it can also imply that someone is overbearing and pretentious. These days, "pukka" is also used as a British slang word meaning "excellent" or "cool."
Though wtf any of that has to do with being able to adequately present oneself and one's abilities appropriately escapes me...
Right well on the supermarket shelf we have single boxes for these pies which are 3 inches in thickness. Out of the box comes a pie which is about 2 inches high. Once we take the lid off the pie we peek inside to see a very small amount of chicken balti. Do you know about Russian dolls. Well here we see the same kind of construct. This is the British market.
Now lets say you are interviewing a candidate for a position in your company. Like it is in Morrisons, you are the buyer and instead of buying a pie you are buying someone's labour or time. The productivity is what you want. This is the chicken balti, full of protein and so valuable to your body.
Assuming you are intelligent enough to process analogies, lets remind you of what I highlighted that you said.
OK so the applicant thinks, OK I must get a job and the buyer of my time is saying the above. Therefore the goal of acquiring the job can only be achieved if I sell myself. The applicant, who bought a pie earlier in Morrisons thinks, well Pukka Pies are a big brand, highly successful and professional and in a job. I will copy their professionalism.
Now less see. In order to sell a spoonful of chicken balti for two quid I must make it look far bigger on the shelf than it really is. I will apply this sales tactic to my CV. Now I know I failed all my o levels and was thrown out of a crap job for fighting and god knows what else, so I'll hide all of this and make it look like I'm a PhD researcher type and in the top 5% in intelligence. I'll fake some reviews, create a false social media profile... and so on. I'll fool the man at the interview and once I get the contract it will be too late to sack me cos I'm black and I'll claim racism.
So the outcome of your smart idea is to get totally shafted with the emplyee from hell and it will cost you dearly in many ways.
You appear to be focused on one interpretation of the word sell, without the ability to recognise context or understand its full range of meanings. Perhaps the following may help.
Job applicants are normally expected to list their qualifications for the job — ie, be able to advertise, promote, pitch their plus points and persuade the recruiter of their suitability for the job.
Experience and education in pie retailing could be of prime relevance to a job with the Storer family, or Greggs. But where I work, it's likely to be a minimal consideration, unless specified at the outset, of course...
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 7, 2023 14:49:26 GMT
Right well on the supermarket shelf we have single boxes for these pies which are 3 inches in thickness. Out of the box comes a pie which is about 2 inches high. Once we take the lid off the pie we peek inside to see a very small amount of chicken balti. Do you know about Russian dolls. Well here we see the same kind of construct. This is the British market.
Now lets say you are interviewing a candidate for a position in your company. Like it is in Morrisons, you are the buyer and instead of buying a pie you are buying someone's labour or time. The productivity is what you want. This is the chicken balti, full of protein and so valuable to your body.
Assuming you are intelligent enough to process analogies, lets remind you of what I highlighted that you said.
OK so the applicant thinks, OK I must get a job and the buyer of my time is saying the above. Therefore the goal of acquiring the job can only be achieved if I sell myself. The applicant, who bought a pie earlier in Morrisons thinks, well Pukka Pies are a big brand, highly successful and professional and in a job. I will copy their professionalism.
Now less see. In order to sell a spoonful of chicken balti for two quid I must make it look far bigger on the shelf than it really is. I will apply this sales tactic to my CV. Now I know I failed all my o levels and was thrown out of a crap job for fighting and god knows what else, so I'll hide all of this and make it look like I'm a PhD researcher type and in the top 5% in intelligence. I'll fake some reviews, create a false social media profile... and so on. I'll fool the man at the interview and once I get the contract it will be too late to sack me cos I'm black and I'll claim racism.
So the outcome of your smart idea is to get totally shafted with the emplyee from hell and it will cost you dearly in many ways.
You appear to be focused on one interpretation of the word sell, without the ability to recognise context or understand its full range of meanings. Perhaps the following may help.
Job applicants are normally expected to list their qualifications for the job — ie, be able to advertise, promote, pitch their plus points and persuade the recruiter of their suitability for the job.
Experience and education in pie retailing could be of prime relevance to a job with the Storer family, or Greggs. But where I work, it's likely to be a minimal consideration, unless specified at the outset, of course...
I do not appear to have made a mistake here. I was in fact covering the advertising aspect of it. The one thing this pie did not have on it was the weight. Mind you one thing very few job ads have these days is the offer denominated in pounds sterling as opposed to the currency of employment recruiters which is "competitive rates" and those kind of measures of magnitude. How would they respond if you listed your qualifications as "competitive qualifications" ? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 7, 2023 14:53:40 GMT
It was not so pukka then, but perhaps more Pukka. |
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), but provided the maths provision for those not wishing to study in-depth maths was based around functional numeracy, financial awareness and occupationally-focused applied maths, I think it's not a bad idea.